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Thread: Please explain?

  1. #1
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    Default Please explain?

    Hi guys,
    can someone tell me where in the stafford standards does it say a blue staff must have black nose, black nails and black skin? I cant understand why its such a no no to have/breed a blue stafford when the standard says that blue is an accepted colour?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Angel; 12-03-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #2
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    I'm pretty sure its because it has to be from a black pigmentation. Otherwise they get massive skin allergies and stuff. Proper breeders will only breed from black pigment because of this. Crappy breeders will just breed blue to blue to get the money regardless of what condition the puppies will be in.

    Its kinda like some breeds must have certain pigmentation in certain areas to qualify. For example GSP's cannot have any yellow as it is a disqualifying trait. They have to be mostly black pigmentated as otherwise white is seen as dominant and that is a massive no no. Its the same as in horses, for a paint horse to qualify as a paint it must have an area of white skin bigger then a 20cent piece somewhere on its body other than legs or head.

    With staffys its also to do with trying to prevent bad breeding as good breeders will not breed from a non black pigmented (blue) dog therefore prevent the skin issues.

  3. #3
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    I understand that part of it but it doesn't say that in the standards! It doesn't mention the pigmentation of the skin at all? So where does the need to have the black pigmentation come from? Is it over time people have come to realize that blue to blue mating seems to cause skin conditions and if so why is it not part of the standard???

    I guess I'm asking why all the hype surrounding blues if they technically met the standard?

  4. #4
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    This is from a qualified staffy breeder in response to basically the same question

    "the nose leather MUST be black, the coat colour should be rich, the eye should be as dark as possible and the nails should be dark in reflection of the coat. This is genetically impossible with the blue gene as it is a dilute of the black/brindle gene"

    Its because its a dilute gene dd, so its recessive meaning to get a blue you need to either breed two blues (dd) or two which carry the blue gene Dd. Basically what this means is that a dd dog (from two blue parents) will have a blue nose, as its pigment is blue. This is against the standard as it calls for a black nose with blue dogs. Blue dogs with a black pigment can only come from two heterozygous parents (Dd) and are usually an accident as good breeders do not breed for blue puppies (and only a small chance of it happening as the dogs genes should be checked beforehand).

    The health issues associated with them are from issues with the recessive blue pigment or from interbreeding to keep the colour 'pure'. This results in inbreeding issues which can be anything that the parents carry, it would normally be overridden by the dominant gene but as they are breeding recessive to recessive there is nothing stopping the negative trait from showing.

  5. #5
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    I love this forum it's so informative!!!

    Still....I know I seem to be going over the same thing but why if the Blue is not disirable because of the above is it part of the acceptable standard???

    As a potential new comer to showing staffords, I'm looking at the standard and it serious is lacking in correct information?! As I've said before it does not mention black pigment and says blue is acceptable!!! Maybe the standard itself needs to be look at and changed?? How is the uninitiated to know???

  6. #6
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    Yes perhaps they should be more specific. Blue is accepted as long as it has black pigment which means it could only have come from Dd parents. Blue's with blue pigment are not accepted. I believe its also because people are now breeding for colour over standard so it would be extremely hard to find a blue which is totally correct to standard!

    Glad to be of help

  7. #7

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    From the standard:

    Head And Skull: Short, deep though with broad skull. Very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop, short foreface, nose black.
    Eyes: Dark preferred but may bear some relation to coat colour. Round, of medium size, and set to look straight ahead. Eye rims dark.
    Feet: Well padded, strong and of medium size. Nails black in solid coloured dogs.
    Yes, the standard is out of date, as are quite a few others (eg. border collie for colour). I think that blue was probably intended to be a dark, rich blue with dark blue pigment. But as time has gone on and blues have been exploited by people breeding for the colour rather than the dog's conformation against the standard, the quality of blue dogs in general is very low. If there were healthy, GOOD quality blue dogs out there, I think people would have less of an issue (I believe this is the case with Amstaffs).

  8. #8
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    Thanks for that!
    I saw something similar happen many years ago with German Shepards (not colour) sadly I guess while ever there is a demand for Blue pups this issue continues!

  9. #9
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    Doesn't matter what breed it is dogs of 'different' colour or unusual colour get exploited and bred by less than ethical people because the pet buying public's demand for these more unusual colours gives them motivation because of money.

    Even in Whippets people chase certain colours even though any colour or combination of colours is acceptable in Whippets. I could of charged twice the amount for the red/fawn and white dog and blue/fawn and white bitch pups in my most recent litter, instead I withdrew them from sale and only just recently sold the bitch pup to a wonderful family via recommendation who wanted a slightly older pup and didn't care what colour she came in and I still have the dog pup. Blue is not unusual in Whippets, but because it is in other breeds people still want them.

    I do see the occasional blue SBT around the show rings, so nice ones are out there, just few and far between.

    There was hardly ever a decent blue Kelpie bred, so again demand was high from the public when you advertised a blue.

    Personally one of the things I look forward to when I no longer show is just saying to a breeder, "I want a healthy, happy, quality puppy" and that's my only criteria.

    A colour 'preference' is fine, but anything more than that opens to the door to unethical breeding and high prices IMO.

    I'm matching a breed to my lifestyle not my curtains.

  10. #10
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    Well said Mac!

    I have recently been caught out by one those, unethical only breeding for colour and $ breeders, that you refer to and boy have I learnt a lot in the last 10 weeks or so!
    I brought a blue SBT pup, simply because I like the colour. She arrived with major issues (Mange) of which I am still paying for and treating!!! Knowing what I know now however, I would never have brought her, considering I wanted to show and breed her. Having said that though I wouldnt part with her for quids!

    Was a very expensive lesson to learn and one that has rocked my faith in humans and enforced my love of dogs! Not such a bad thing.

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