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Thread: Alpha Dog of the Pack

  1. #1

    Default Alpha Dog of the Pack

    Well all this talk about one thinking that yes there is an Alpha Dog or an Alpha pair to which I think there is while others have come up with proof that there insn't an Alpha dog or pair in a wolf pack.
    I am subscribing to the Alpha dog or pair in a pack of wolves.
    I know I have said that if proven wrong I would man up to it. But to me this was just not feeling right so I don't the right thing by saying I will agree to disagree.
    So this morning it got the better of me about this. I am sorry for going against what I said but I had to go and look.
    I know we have got some very knowledgable people here who are on the side of no Alpha dogs in the pack, and they think they are right as I do.

    Wolf Facts - Wolf Pack

    I went to google and found this site and it is reading that there is a pack leader. And I will go by this one over what I am being told as it is how I see it.

    What I should have here was that I am not trying to be right, but what I am doing is not to be a big head either.
    It is a subject that I thought I knew what I was on about, so I did a little digging.
    So please everyone don't think that this is me having to be right or wrong.
    If I feel I am right I will do my best to back it up as others have pointed me in their direction to show their points on this
    Last edited by Rid****; 10-18-2011 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Add more

  2. #2

  3. #3
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    Really I don't care what researchers have found out about wolves. I own domestic dogs.

    I currently have 6 adult dogs and a litter of 6 puppies at home now 9 weeks old.

    As a breeder I've always had multiple dogs.

    So doing my own research 24/7 at home I subscribe to the theory that each breed is a little different and then each individual in that breed is also a little different.

    How my dogs interact with each other and how they interact with me and the other humans in the house is entirely different.

    While I'm part of the family I'm not part of the sub-family of dogs here. My dogs don't challenge me with body posturing, they don't play rough and tumble with me, they don't expect me to be able to run down the back and chase a magpie.

    The alpha way of bringing up a dog will be beneficial for some dogs and owners, it will crush some dogs and for some it will make absolutely no difference at all whether they got to walk thru a door way first or sleep on the lounge.

    The best thing to do is know your dog, know it's personality and shape that to suit your lifestyle.

  4. #4
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    I believe in every wild "Pack" be it wolves, lions, monkeys etc there is a Alpha male and an alpha female.

    I think this is extreamly important in the wild and has been and will be in thr future.

    What I differ in oppinion is how necessary this kind of role is with domesticated animals. For century's we have bred this out of animals, bred them into functioning solo in a home, with humans etc

    I am the head of my home alongside my hubby, I tell Ruby and my Children when to eat, sleep and shit. No really I dont tell them when to shit just where to! I am their authority figure and they will respect what I ask of them.

    I expect pretty much the same things from my kids and from Ruby.

    Good manners, respect and doing as their bloody told

    Edit to add
    - My mothers dog is the head of their house, she tells them when she is to be fed, she tells them when and where she can sit and who she wants in her space. They walk in from work and they have to have to pick her up and spend 5 mins playing before they can even sit down or she carry's on. I think this balance is out of whack and isnt healthy for either dog nor human.
    Last edited by Bulldog_Lover; 10-18-2011 at 09:01 AM.
    Rubylisious


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog_Lover View Post
    I believe in every wild "Pack" be it wolves, lions, monkeys etc there is a Alpha male and an alpha female.

    I think this is extreamly important in the wild and has been and will be in thr future.

    What I differ in oppinion is how necessary this kind of role is with domesticated animals. For century's we have bred this out of animals, bred them into functioning solo in a home, with humans etc

    I am the head of my home alongside my hubby, I tell Ruby and my Children when to eat, sleep and shit. No really I dont tell them when to shit just where to! I am their authority figure and they will respect what I ask of them.

    I expect pretty much the same things from my kids and from Ruby.

    Good manners, respect and doing as their bloody told

    Edit to add
    - My mothers dog is the head of their house, she tells them when she is to be fed, she tells them when and where she can sit and who she wants in her space. They walk in from work and they have to have to pick her up and spend 5 mins playing before they can even sit down or she carry's on. I think this balance is out of whack and isnt healthy for either dog nor human.
    Lol I am top of the pecking order in my house! if everyone ignores me and doesn't do what I say there will be hell to pay... mostly for the OH anyways!

    I personally think with Harley using the "pack" order system was beneficial to him in some ways, not so much in others. I don't think I will use that method again, but then it all depends on the dog. Its hard to get that theory out of your head after you have spent so long believing that that is the way to do things.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  6. #6
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    I think its important to have structure, for an animal to know who is boss as the same as children.

    When there is no bounderies set thats when you have a house half chewed to bits, crap on the carpets, piss in you washing basket and in the fridge crisper, dolls with missing legs and then dont get me started about what the dogs may get up to
    Rubylisious


  7. #7

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    I think that structure is a good thing.
    I try to do some sort obedience with him everyday as he just wont listen to the boss at all.
    Today I will try it with our yougest being here who he loves to bits. Actually it is all kids he loves.

  8. #8
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    Its funny My hubby will tell Ruby to get off our bed and get onto hers, she listens, then soon as the lights go off she creeps over to my side and slowly sneaks next to me. Its super cute!! I love out night time snuggles!

    If I say go to bed, she will go and will not come back on until I call her up in the morning!
    Rubylisious


  9. #9
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    I don't think there is any disagreement on there being an alpha male and female in a wild pack of wolves (or dogs). I think what we tend to disagree on is on the whole superior/inferior theory. And that the alpha dogs actively go about enforcing their role, by making the other member submit to them at all times..

    But most importantly, I agree with BL that wild wolves are just not the same as domesticated dogs. Our domesticated dogs have evolved over thousands of years. They may share the wolf's genes, but that doesn't mean that they share the same instincts and behaviours.

    I watched that 'The Secret Life of the Dog' doco a while back and they tried to domesticate wolf cubs by taking them away from their mothers as newborns and raise them with humans who treated them like they would treat their pet dogs. They were ok at first, but once they reached adolescence it became clear that they were very different to domesticated dogs. Despite the fact that their owners used the same training techniques that they used succesfully on their pet dogs, these wolves remained too wild to keep as pets. They were all skittish and uncontrollable and had a pretty aggressive attitude towards food. All the people involved in the experiment had pet dogs that were perfectly well behaved, yet the wolves would not respond to them in the same way. They are a different species to our dogs. So I do not think we should treat our dogs like them. (ETA: You can watch the part about the wolf cubs here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGe5T..._order&list=UL)

    Also agree with Mac that a dog is clever enough to know that we are not dogs. We don't look like them, we don't act like them and that's why the dogs don't interact with us the same way as they interact with dogs. We are two species who have a long, long history of co-existence. If dogs could think like us, maybe they would describe us as some strange mother-like figure. Because we feed them and look after them. I think it's counterproductive to try and mimic dog behaviour when we have tools that are so much more powerful than any alpha dog could ever be. Like opposable thumbs! And the ability to buy food from the shop any time we like. And cook it! We have leads, can open and close doors, drive the car to exiting places, etc. There is absolutely no need to make the dog fear us to make them do what we want them to do. They are smart enough to know that if they don't stay on our right side, they will not get all the perks that come with being friends with a human.

    That's my take on it...
    Last edited by Beloz; 10-18-2011 at 11:51 AM.

  10. #10
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    Still reading posts and links...

    Just wanted to say I'm getting stacks out of this thread and am enjoying the discussion.

    Thanks for starting it Rid.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/Chippo/Dogsx4blackbackground.jpg
    ... Jade ...

    Aha yeah me too! wee wee or pee pee and poo poo's or poopie

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