Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 38 of 38

Thread: Alpha Dog of the Pack

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    945

    Default

    Yes and some are very good politicians and are piggybacking their way up. My old mare was one of those. Never lifted a hoof for anybody else. I loved her to bits but even I could see that she was as lazy and selfish as they come. She's been 'the leader' thanks to a close friend who whipped the others into shape for her. Somewhat surreal to watch...

  2. #32

    Default

    Thanks for bringing this thread to life Rid

    After all the talk on the subject recently I too was going to begin one in the morning but you've done it already and I tend to agree with you
    GageDesign Pet Photography
    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by margoo View Post
    Yes and some are very good politicians and are piggybacking their way up. My old mare was one of those. Never lifted a hoof for anybody else. I loved her to bits but even I could see that she was as lazy and selfish as they come. She's been 'the leader' thanks to a close friend who whipped the others into shape for her. Somewhat surreal to watch...
    Yes that is a real horse thing.........We have a "team" like that at home. Robert is the passive leader and Jack does all the work for him. Horses are very interesting to watch and observe in a herd.......Now they are really good at team work, their whole survival depends on it
    Pets are forever

  4. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    Thanks for bringing this thread to life Rid

    After all the talk on the subject recently I too was going to begin one in the morning but you've done it already and I tend to agree with you
    Well sometimes someone has to stick out their neck f they think something should be bought forward even if it is against others thoughts on it.
    As I have said before this is a forum and we all have different idea's and sometimes our ideas go against others.
    And this is good as it open up discusion on these matter.
    It would be a boring world if we all agreed with what others have to say.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    203

    Default

    I think one of the main problems with the "Alpha Theory" is that people make a judgement on something they do not fully understand. The words 'alpha' and 'dominant' were always terms for the "strong leader of a pack" in the old school terms of hanging dogs and physically dominating.

    First things first the definition of dominant =
    dom·i·nant
    adjective
    1.
    ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence: dominant in the chain of command.
    2.
    occupying or being in a commanding or elevated position.
    3.
    predominant; main; major; chief: Corn is the dominant crop of Iowa.

    As you can see it has nothing to do with being aggressive. I personally do not use the term dominance I simply prefer 'leader' as it is a more passive term and most people do not take it the wrong way. Just think of the some of the best leaders in the world. They have been passive, persuasive and they have this .... air about them (sorry could not think of the best word to explain it) A true leader just has a way of being that you can never mistake.

    Those under a good leader respect, follow and trust them, and that's what I think everyone should aim for with their dog. Not to be "dominant" or "alpha" or anything like that. I try and be a good teacher, parent, leader and friend. So that my dogs respect and trust in my judgement and follow where I lead.

    EDIT TO ADD: I see the leader as controlling every resource of value, food, play, toys, walks etc. You control and structure all of them (in a GOOD way) so your dog goes to YOU for everything good he ever gets and if you are able to just pull food from out of mid air you doing is totally going to respect that
    Last edited by Kaz Tarja; 10-23-2011 at 08:44 PM.
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    I find this debate extremely interesting.

    I am not sure how to put my thoughts down without postign a load of rubbish. But we bascially dont subscribe to the "alpha/whatever" theory. We do all the stuff you arent meant to do (feed first, let on bed/all furniture, let them out doors first, let them win tug of war etc etc) and we have never had an issue with any of the 5 dogs weve had together.

    We dont really use any reinforcement at all (of course they do get told off, and they do get praise but its not like a full on tool. We dont do a lot of training except the basics when young (sit, stay, come etc...and working with the and food), they just learn by osmosis and do what they are told because it's expected. Affection is given freely...often on demand. They are well behaved and happy and we dont have any issues with squabbles or anything.

    The only resources we control are walks and food. Other than that its all open to whatever anyone wants. If the dogs want affection, sometimes they get it, sometimes they dont (although mostly they get it on tap as stated just above LOL)). If I want affection from the dogs, sometimes I get it and sometimes I dont (which I hate when Pippi doesnt want cuddles with mum LOL). Their toys are in a set location and they just help themselves whenever they want.

    Domestic dogs are complete different to wolves. Wolves need an alpha to lead a cohesive pack for hunting and survival. Dogs dont. The human/dog relationship is mutually beneficial....its a relationship IMO, not an "ownership" and I dont think it would work for everyone if you were always worried about being their "alpha".

    I still dont think I have got my thoughts together cohesively but I will come back with more comments as they sort themselves LOL and some might even appear contradictory to what I have posted here because I am rubbish at putting my thoughts down exactly as I mean them.

    PS: I have watched docos and read books etc but my statements are just based purely on my own experience. Trying to apply theories that worked for someone else IMO is not always going to work for you and you have to do what is right fo the dog/s you have.
    Last edited by Lala; 10-23-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,581

    Default

    I imagine the "leader" as having first right of refusal on all resources. Ie if there's food, they get first pick - but can walk away and leave it to others to fight over...

    I think some problems come from believing stuff like this makes a difference:
    1. who is first through a door
    2. who gets to eat first
    and a bunch of other myths.

    If you control who gets to go through the door first and what they have to do to get through the door (eg dog must sit and wait for permission to go through door, or dog never goes through this door unless has lead on...) then you're in charge. If dogs are doing whatever the hell they want and you're miserable - they're in charge.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I imagine the "leader" as having first right of refusal on all resources. Ie if there's food, they get first pick - but can walk away and leave it to others to fight over...

    I think some problems come from believing stuff like this makes a difference:
    1. who is first through a door
    2. who gets to eat first
    and a bunch of other myths.

    If you control who gets to go through the door first and what they have to do to get through the door (eg dog must sit and wait for permission to go through door, or dog never goes through this door unless has lead on...) then you're in charge. If dogs are doing whatever the hell they want and you're miserable - they're in charge.
    Thats a really good way of putting it hya. Right of refusal.

    Using our own home as an example, our dogs pretty much do what they want. We are all happy with that situation and it works. BUT, if we say or decide "no", then it doesnt happen

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •