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Thread: Federal Government Agrees to Raise Uniform Bans Nationally

  1. #31
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    I would be one who would slip through the cracks if this hypothetical scenario of MMJ's came into being.

    I am not required to register my dogs at all as they are * cough* working dogs and we live on a farm.

    I could theoretically have as many breeds or numbers of dogs that I wished and breed them willy nilly.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  2. #32
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    I agree with Mymatejack on the compulsory dog training as a condition for registering your dog. It's a hassle and there would probably be quite a few dog owners who don't really need it and would be fine training and socialising their dogs at home. BUT it would definitely help with reducing the number of anti-social and potentially dangerous dogs out there. So I would be happy to put up with it, even though I don't think I need to go to training classes as my dog is properly socialised and I'm doing well with training at home too.

    I think it is a much better alternative than the current laws.

    As for the level of training required, I think it would be more about the socialisation than about being able to sit, stay or drop. It would not be that hard for a trainer to assess a dog's social skills after observing them for a few hours.

    Apart from that, as far as I am concerned, the only thing I think every dog needs to learn is a reliable recall, especially if you are going to take them to off-leash places. Unfortunately, this is the hardest thing to learn and they would never be able to make that a requirement as way too many would fail. It is already a requirement in most places if you let your dog off the lead though. You have to have your dog "under control" and apparently that means that they will come 90% of the time on the first or second recall cue.

    As for the mandatory desexing and the breeding... I am a crossbreed fan. It's not just because I also like rescuing an unwanted dog. I just happen to like mutts. If I got a puppy from a breeder, I'd probably still want a bitsa. Hard to understand for some, but it somehow makes sense to me.

    However, there are way too many people out there who don't desex their dogs because they either don't want to pay for it or they have some sentimental reason not to do it. Which is not right. Especially not if it increases the chance that your male dog is going to be dog aggressive or try to escape from your yard all the time.

    I believe some rescue organisations (or was it the pound?) add the cost of desexing to their adoption fee and give you a voucher for it if you adopt a pup too young to be desexed. I'd be happy if they would make that law for all dogs sold too. Either sell them desexed, or make the new owners pay for desexing when they buy the dog. That way at least they won't not desex their dogs because of the cost alone.

    I do not like restrictive rules any more than the next person. But sometimes it is better than the alternatives.

    ETA: And I think 'responsible pet ownership' should be a subject on every school's curriculum!

  3. #33

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    At minimum EVERY dog should know Sit, Stay & Come. You won't need more than that, and it will make everyone's lives better.

    If you can't be bothered with that you don't deserve to own a dog, period.

    Those are the bare basics that most puppy classes teach you to teach. Usually drop is thrown in there too.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rid**** View Post
    Sorry to add in once more but some owners of dog don't require their dog to do anything but come when called.
    Why should they have to go through a full training when they don't require it just for their lap dog.
    My neighbour is one who has no control over his dog but he calls it and it is there.
    I have had dogs for a while and I agree that they should be trained but what I want in my dog isn't what he wants.
    So is there an inbetween area ? I don't think so. What I do think is that each dog and owner has to have what they want out of their dogs or dog.
    It will be way too high to place time and effort into every dog owner to find a workable area.
    And as I have said it has the making's of something to work with but to what degree is going to be the million dollar question.
    So please think of those who don't require what maybe you and me want out of our dogs but they don't.
    No need to be sorry for adding to the discussion, i'm not

    I see where you're coming from, but honestly, how else do we stop dogs attacking? I'll bet that almost every dog involved in an attack either 1. Was locked in a backyard, never given much attention and was never trained/socialised 2. Was deliberately made aggressive for whatever purposes(gaurding maybe) or 3. Didn't know its place in the family pack and decided it was going to fight to show who was really boss.

    So the only way i can see to stop the above situations is to enforce both understanding of dogs by the owners and training of all dogs - like i said, it doesn't have to be high level training, just the basics. Will turn granny's lap dog into a much more enjoyable pet to have around anyways, might even encourage granny to teach it a few tricks, give granny a new interest.

    Can you suggest any better ideas? (i'm keen to listen to all ideas, this is just a simple set of laws i thought would have an actual impact on dog attacks)

  5. #35
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    From a training point of view.........The well socialized dog that do not sit and drop are easy to deal with and no-ones worry. It is the under or not socialized dogs that are the issue. As to training a good recall. We have many people who have many titles to their dogs, who cannot recall their dogs in an open and free for all environment. Some of those well titled dogs are not even well socialized. It comes up again and again that many Dog Trainers at Clubs have aggressive dogs. Obedience training is not everything. Good Socialisation is
    Some happy dogs are also not good at recall ever.....Some dogs are just that way...But if they were really social that would not be as important. Except they might injure themselves in accidents with traffic or such.
    When I say social I do not mean the dog that is super happy and jumps on anyone and everything, I mean the dog that handles strangers both dog and people politely.
    It's a lot to ask.........And only in my perfect world

    As to guard dogs......I think it is kinda scary when aggressive dogs are in untrained hands. Most dogs will protect their owner in a scary situation, just because they can sense the fear in the owner. Even my floppy sloppy super friendly's show some maturity when there are weird or aggressive people around. But I would not like my dog to run over and bite anyone. Even when people break-in. Because it would be my dog who is PTS. The dog always seems to loose in a Court of Law. So I will always try to never allow my dogs to choose aggression, it is unacceptable
    Last edited by newfsie; 09-11-2011 at 03:22 PM.
    Pets are forever

  6. #36

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    As I have said you are on the right track but what it looks like I have got no idea.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rid**** View Post
    Sorry to add in once more but some owners of dog don't require their dog to do anything but come when called.
    Why should they have to go through a full training when they don't require it just for their lap dog.
    My neighbour is one who has no control over his dog but he calls it and it is there.
    I have had dogs for a while and I agree that they should be trained but what I want in my dog isn't what he wants.
    So is there an inbetween area ? I don't think so. What I do think is that each dog and owner has to have what they want out of their dogs or dog.
    It will be way too high to place time and effort into every dog owner to find a workable area.
    And as I have said it has the making's of something to work with but to what degree is going to be the million dollar question.
    So please think of those who don't require what maybe you and me want out of our dogs but they don't.
    Wow, I think we all posted at the same time, just then! It's a very interesting discussion indeed.

    I don't agree that it's just a matter of what the owner wants from their dog. That is how we get situations with dog attacks. I agree that your old neighbour with her chihuahua possibly couldn't care less whether her dog comes when called because she always walks it on a lead or maybe never lets it out of the house at all. But those little unsocialised, untrained, head too big for their body, yappy dogs can be very intimidating too. My daughter went through a stage of being scared of them, even though she would walk right up to a Great Dane, no problems. But she'd met too many little dogs that came across as aggressive and didn't trust them at all.

    I think it is our duty as responsible citizens to ensure our dogs are as well behaved as they can be, not just for our sake, but for our fellow citizens' sake too. And regardless of the dogs' size, breed or lifestyle.

    If you live out on a property at the back of Bourke that may not have the same importance. But if you live in the burbs, you cannot isolate your dog/s from other people and dogs completely.

    ETA: just wanted to add, not having a go at you either, Rid! I am very interested in hearing what everyone has to say about this. Lots of valid points are being made by everyone.

  8. #38

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    I really don't understand why you can't have a dog that doesn't see the light of day outside of it yard and home.
    We may not agree with it but believe me there are dogs and people out there that do this very thing.
    No one has the rights to tell you that you must train your dog.
    If the dog is a nusiance barker like nextdoors, well you have to tell them as they don't know. Which is exactlly what I did do.
    I am like you just know the basic's of training and I have dogs that are well behaved.
    But I would hate for say you coming in and telling me that I need a piece of paper to say it has done training. You or the government have no rights to tell me to do it.
    Dog can live long lives in just the company of its owners.
    i do understand what you are getting at but it isn't one law for all as it just won't work at all.

  9. #39
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    I can't say I like the idea of dogs being completely isolated from the outside world. Maybe they can be happy, I'm not sure. But the problem is that usually they're behind a normal fence and gate. They can escape or someone can open the gate. Which I think is what happened with the recent Melbourne attack? If that dog would've been socialised, it would not have gone on a killing rampage as soon as it got out of its yard.

    I agree that a "one rule for all" will never suit everyone, but I also believe that it's the easiest way of dealing with this issue. If I was told that I had to have a training certificate for my dog, I would know that that is to prevent dog attacks and I'd be happy to cooperate because of that.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rid**** View Post
    I really don't understand why you can't have a dog that doesn't see the light of day outside of it yard and home.
    We may not agree with it but believe me there are dogs and people out there that do this very thing.
    No one has the rights to tell you that you must train your dog.
    If the dog is a nusiance barker like nextdoors, well you have to tell them as they don't know. Which is exactlly what I did do.
    I am like you just know the basic's of training and I have dogs that are well behaved.
    But I would hate for say you coming in and telling me that I need a piece of paper to say it has done training. You or the government have no rights to tell me to do it.
    Dog can live long lives in just the company of its owners.
    i do understand what you are getting at but it isn't one law for all as it just won't work at all.
    Sorry Rid, but bull dust. This is EXACTLY what is required. Basic obedience is no more taxing than Puppy School. You can get through both, prove that you can control your dog and your dog is friendly & that is all you need.

    It has to come down to one law. Training at a school is NOT doing endless obedience routines, unless you are training for competition standard. Even then it is fun. It is safe, effective socialisation & it ensures that you can read other dogs body language as well - you learn it just by being there and observing what is going on.

    If you can't be bothered training your dog you shouldn't have one. Same as if you can't be bothered walking your dog or giving it the basic level of care all dogs require.

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