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Thread: Vets Happy with RAW Diets

  1. #31
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    Kass, sorry I can't offer you advice as I am not a nnutritional expert on canine nutrition. Your best bet is to speak to your vet, or someone who has knowledge in the area. Whatever you do, take the advice you see on the internet with a grain of salt because much of it is wrong and or misleading.

    Hya - I agree that wheat can be an allergen but the stupidity of claim of "don't feed dogs kibble becuase wheat is the number one allergen" is what brings me undone. The claim totally ignores the facts about common dietry allergens in canines and alludes to the fact that it is kibble that is the big no-no with skin issues and allergies when it plainly isn't.

    The idea of making your own food for an elimination diet Hya is about control and nothing else. You simply can not control what is in prepared foods. On an elimination diet, the animal must not take in any other food type aside from the 2 foods specifically chosen to conduct the diet with. If even one tiny piece of other food type is ingested, the results of the diet are skewed and it has to be conducted all over again.

    I have had to do an elimination diet on a rescue. We put her on goats meat and sweet potato. That was all she ate for over 3 months. Nothing else but water passed her lips and I had to be incredibly vigilant to ensure this was the case.

    We discovered that she was allergic to beef, dairy, eggs and she also showed some reaction to chicken. Because of her reaction to beef, dairy, eggs and chicken, we could not feed her any type of kibble or commerical food of any description as it is impossible to find a kibble that doesn't have at least one of these ingredients.

    Molly, my moggy that she passed, was also allergic to beef.

    The claim that Vets push their own barrow to make money also annoys me and all it does is undermine this profession. No-one here, to my knowledge, has spent more than 6 years studying veterinary science. No-one here to my knowledge, deals with a myriad of issues, problems and animals on a daily basis. We all know that the more expereince we have with animals, the more we learn, so tell me how those with a few pets could even begin to match the knowledge of someone who has trained and studied for 6 years and who deals with animals every day. Sure there will be Vets wanting to push a particular food that they stock, sure they make a small profit on it, but they push it becuase they have the knowledge to KNOW that there is nothing wrong with the food they push!
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  2. #32
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    @ Anne: I know he isn't a member, nor does he post here....

    But what about Dr Bruce Symes? He certainly has all of the qualifications you list in your criteria above, and he has quite strong views on 'commercial dog food' including canned, kibble, 'sausage' or 'rolls' etc

    Does he bear listening to?

    Whilst I agree with a great deal of your post, I'm like you on the other side of the fence. We both believe what we believe strongly, and humans (me included) will always have a natural tendency to seek information which fits with our view/ beliefs and experiences. There's a jargon term for it which eludes me at the minute.

    I'm open to listening, reading, talking and exploring ideas about the 'right
    foods', but based on my knowledge base, I will avoid as much as possible feeding any commercial food to my dogs.

    I'm quite sure my vet is not my best source of animal nutritional knowledge. He might be my best source for medical knowledge, but I expand his knowledge on food and feeding regularly- as admitted by him.

    If multiple years of nutritional study promotes the production of a dog food with wheat, corn, rice... Carbohydrate..... As Main Ingredients... Then isn't there something 'rotten in the state of Denmark'?

    And why was it that my cat was constantly in and out of the vets with bladder/ urinary tract infections that threatened his life again and again and again even when he was on thus amazingly researched prescription kibble.... Yet since I switched him (with current vet's approval) to a RAW diet his health improved dramatically? Not a single vets visit since- in 4 years. Healthy skin, teeth, coat, eyes, ears and brain. A 10+ year old cat restored to the fitness of a young adult cat. It's an interesting question, no?

  3. #33
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    Villain, you assume that I don't like raw or natural perhaps? I do. I personally feed raw but with kibble. I avoid preservatives and additives as much as possible in my own personal diet as well, but I also believe that most things in moderation is ok.

    Do you eat bread? Biscuits? Ever eaten a meat pie? Drink carbonated drinks? Drink alcohol? Use butter or marg on your bread? Eat dips at parties? Do you eat packaged foods? You are eating preservatives.

    Molly ate kibble and tinned food her whole life. Molly lived until she was almost 15. She was never sick. She was healthy, had a glorious coat and had no issues over her entire life. None. Not one. Nada. Zilch. Curiously, I find most people, even those who advocate barf or raw, still feed their cats commercial food. Go figure.

    A GSD my family owned lived until he was 18. What did he get fed? Scraps. Whatever was thrown to him.

    My Pugs ALL eat kibble. My Pugs ALWAYS have eaten kibble as part of their diet. I dare anyone to assess them and tell me they are not healthy or their coats are not wonderful. They have no allergies or skin issues, they have never exhibited any issue that barf and raw feeders claim they should have.

    I am so over this whole raw and barf push and have been for some time. Everyone is an expert on what dogs should eat. Commercial foods are created by people who want to make our dogs and cats sick. Vets are all greedy money hungry idiots who know nothing about nutrition. You are doing your dog harm if you don't subscribe to our theories. You are being mean to your dog. You are feeding it like you don't care, isn't your dog worht better.

    What a load of utter nonsense. Feeding dogs should not have to be so hard! Stop making it hard!

    And, on that note, I will go back to my original point - wheat IS NOT the primary allegen in dietry related issues with canines. Beef and chicken are.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  4. #34
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    *shrug* the whole world will never agree on everything...

    Anne, I did note you feed combined raw plus kibble in your post at the top of page...2... I think.

    I also don't agree that commercial foods are created to cause harm and for greed. No, actually, I think they were created for consumer convenience. But as we do agree (I think)... Convenient foods are not always best for us.

    In terms of the primary allergen; I'm not going to take a stance on that. I think it's been said here time and again there are a number of regularly noted offenders of which wheat, beef and chicken... Or beef, chicken and wheat.... Or chicken, wheat and beef... Are often noted.

    I think it is hazardous to put any one of them in top spot. That's simplistic.

  5. #35
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    To an extent I agree re; putting any at number one, however my point is that comments on raw advocacy sites stating that kibble is the main cause without even mentioning the fact that chicken and beef are higher (or equal to or however it is worded or stated) makes people think that kibble is the cause of diet related allergens and all our dog's ailments. It makes them think they can then safely feed chicken or beef also - why not, its raw and natural and just wahat wolves ate. Pfft.

    My beef (deliberate pun) is also with the fact that a dog owner can not now say "I feed my dog commercial food" without sounding guilty or apologetic like they are doing something wrong. Without someone jumping on them and telling them not to.

    There are reams and reams of threads on here with the same guilt laden rubbish day in and day out. I am so glad that there are also several members who take a stand and feed what they feel is best for their own dog, regardless of the cyber glares aimed at them for saying they feed commerical foods. Just the other day it was vegetables we were being told not to feed by an over zelous raw feeder!
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  6. #36
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    We had a border collie who lived until she was 17. She was speyed but that was the only time in her whole life (until she got old at say 15) that she went to the vet. She never had vax's or anything.

    Anyway, she ate supermarket dog food her whole life...biscuits and dog roll. And not just any supermarket food, but the cheapest brand. She was fit as a fiddle right up until about 15 and then old age tok her a bit pear shaped.

    I dont know if this is really relevant but something I read made me post it.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    There are reams and reams of threads on here with the same guilt laden rubbish day in and day out. I am so glad that there are also several members who take a stand and feed what they feel is best for their own dog, regardless of the cyber glares aimed at them for saying they feed commerical foods. Just the other day it was vegetables we were being told not to feed by an over zelous raw feeder!
    Yes... And this overzealous raw feeder also posted what ingredients to look for if feeding 'roll' food... Without censure. It can be a bit overzealous on both sides, I think.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    To an extent I agree re; putting any at number one, however my point is that comments on raw advocacy sites stating that kibble is the main cause without even mentioning the fact that chicken and beef are higher (or equal to or however it is worded or stated) makes people think that kibble is the cause of diet related allergens and all our dog's ailments. It makes them think they can then safely feed chicken or beef also - why not, its raw and natural and just wahat wolves ate. Pfft.

    My beef (deliberate pun) is also with the fact that a dog owner can not now say "I feed my dog commercial food" without sounding guilty or apologetic like they are doing something wrong. Without someone jumping on them and telling them not to.

    There are reams and reams of threads on here with the same guilt laden rubbish day in and day out. I am so glad that there are also several members who take a stand and feed what they feel is best for their own dog, regardless of the cyber glares aimed at them for saying they feed commerical foods. Just the other day it was vegetables we were being told not to feed by an over zelous raw feeder!
    I agree.

    And I will say, I feed my dogs commercially. Supermarket food currently because it is convenient and cost effective. But, both my dogs are in peak condition and the vet even commented on what a beaut coat Barney has (all black and shiny) and how great his muscle tone was (proud mama here)

    They have been on raw and home made and vet stuff because I like to change it up a bit.

    But people do kinda screw their faces up at supermarket food. It might not be the best food in the world but it does millions of pets just fine.

  9. #39
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    I don't think wild dogs, dingoes, etc. naturally feed on cows as their primary source of food either. I would hazard a guess that cow meat contains different proteins to that of other animals. Thus I don't think arguing that beef isn't a top allergen "just because dingoes don't have skin problems" is correct at all.

    Only reason I don't feed the cheapest crap from the supermarket is because the smell of it makes me nauseous, and all the dogs I've ever owned have bloated up on it and made the kind of farts that clear the room quick smart. I like My Dog because it's relatively cheap and it has real pieces of food in the tinned food. I also like the smell of both the wet and dry foods, so it's a bonus.
    Last edited by silvershadowwolf24; 08-18-2011 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvershadowwolf24 View Post
    I don't think wild dogs, dingoes, etc. naturally feed on cows as their primary source of food either. I would hazard a guess that cow meat contains different proteins to that of other animals. Thus I don't think arguing that beef isn't a top allergen "just because dingoes don't have skin problems" is correct at all.
    Agree!

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