View Poll Results: Should dog owners keep their unleashed dogs from invading the space of leashed dogs?

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  • Unleashed dogs should not be allowed to approach leashed dogs

    16 80.00%
  • unleashed dogs should be able to approach leashed dogs

    5 25.00%
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Thread: How Far Should an Offleash Dog or Dogs Go Before Our Leashed Dogs Should React?

  1. #51
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    In that, additionally-boo hoo for the dog that its owner has lost recall control. Retrain your dog and do not have it unleashed unless in a permitted council approved area designated for off leash dogs and their owners-walk them in the country, bush where ever- put them on a lead when other leashed dogs approach!

  2. #52

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    Everyone is getting far too worked up over this.

    There equally as many big dogs that are misbehaved as there are small dogs. Worse still there are many MANY clueless owners out there. You can only do one thing in these situations and that is control your dog and find a park that suits your needs. You can’t tell people what to do unless they ask – and in the park situation they certainly are not asking for assistance on raising/training their dog.

    Yes forums are an excellent place to vent but if you aren’t going to reach a conclusion maybe it is time for a new topic?

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota_Chey View Post
    I still hold, that if your dog is on a lead, and another comes up to it and harrasses it, you have a lead in your hand, you have some control. The off lead dog owner clearly has none if the dog has refused a recall.
    I would invest energy in training my dog, not other owners.

    Being able to break a dog fight up is essential, for the very reasons given, that people do just let their dogs run off lead, regardless of what jurisdiction there is.
    And a dog on the leash, is controllable. VERY.
    If you are unable to control your dog, on a leash, then repeat your training till you have the control required to not be risk to others.


    Surely. posted once again by Bernie. and for the record, I am still working out how to post quotes from previous threads, so my apologies, but feel free to track back at your leisure, until I have a handle on this.

    I would have thought it clear since you say you have re-read the threads that you would have somehow gained the introspect that Just a Vent thread beginning with Goldie was about individuals that were frustrated with dogs off their leashes, anywhere, anytime-imposing on their dogs that were on leashes and under owner control. My final statement in my very first post surely demonstrated my support of owners being over it with regard to doing the right thing and irresponsible owners of off the leash dogs whether under effective control or not, invading the space without prior consent of leashed (assuming a normal leash to dog space-in the case of my particular dog ( a short leash, under two feet to my hand and pulled in closer when the need had arisen) -in my original post, and it surely was not necessary to dribble out the entire a & b's of why I believe this should be the case as one would assume that I was supportive with a subjective hindsight of experiential observation.

    Clearly, since that first post in which I have noticed others posting similar stories, that received no pep talks from users such as bernie, or yourself. I agree to disagree, but in hindsight 'back up the truck and bugger off are replies that I have recieved for actually initially posting a point of view that clearly was in support of leashed dogs being left alone by intrusive actions of those dogs not on leads. As for collusion, the exempler to this is the fact that posts since my post have been actually written and paraphrase support to my original context and contention. Those received support-mine received judgement and pep talks. It appears that the most posts have been posted by one particular user over and above my posts, so please refrain from scapegoating, it is clear to see that posts supporting a leashed under control dog needing retraining-when others are free to approach, start a fight, jump on, knock over and so on and so forth is absolutely preponderous and in addition to being bombproof is a false sense of reality, (my unbiased opinion-and that of many professional trainers. if you care to track back in truism, you may see that there was no room for compromising situations...which incidently, many have posted stories about-just that (compromising situations that lead to certain consequences for those doing the right thing legally,.furthermore, no council in any state, that is any state would consider for one moment holding a dog or its owner responsible for a dog that was unleashed, intimidating or aggressive toward that owner or their leashed dog. The reponsibility does not lay with the leashed dogs owner to retrain as there is nothing to retrain for. Mr kfuller-whom is my alter ego-suggestive( according to another source of inflammation) has nothing to do with me, but I saw the same thing happening with that user and actually felt for them because I can read through the lines, not just the lines-and felt they also may be in jeopardy of the same issue, however their gripes were with large dogs bouldering up to their small dog.

    On that note much has been posted supporting the reasons that owners pick up little dogs whom are at jeopardy from injury and those posts have received thankyous, etc and nothing negative has been posted back to the users, nor has the user bernie received any negative feedback from the bombproof, the retraining thing, should bloody well behave itself (and to what degree under what circumstances? oh forgive my lack of intellect-anytime and everytime, even when there is a bomb in its face)-no room for loss óf face, or anything that may reflect owner has lost some control)lol. but for the exception of one post about those particular comments.
    Sorry but what you have written is actually very hard to read so excuse me if I have misinterpreted it.

    I think you are still missing that aside from a couple things said by Bernie everyone here basically agrees with you in one form or another. Most of every user on this forum has so far said they agree that dogs should not be off leash unless they are under effective control, in a designated off leash area.
    They have also agreed that if a dog is off leash in a non-off leash area it should be prevented from approaching your on lead dog by it's owner, and most have agreed that it would be ridiculous to expect your dog to be bombproof in every situation especially if the off-leash dog rushed up to you but that you should have some form of control provided by the leash.

    I certainly agree with you as previously mentioned I have a dog who has DA issues, if we were rushed by an off leash dog I would have to hold her leash very very short and try to kick the dog away to prevent her from biting the other dog (although as we have never been in this situation I don't know if she would bite or just back down but would prefer not to know so would kick the other dog).
    I might also point out that off-leash dogs rushing on lead dogs is one of the major causes of dogs with leash aggression issues (along with owner mishandling).

    To be honest I think there has been some miscommunication/misunderstanding in this thread and where you think members are attacking you we are actually supporting you and shooting down the irresponsible owners.

    With regards to Fuller.K if that user wished to have a reasonable conversation about the issues at hand they should have posted more respectfully instead they came in guns blazing insulting other members when it was unnecessary and then continued to post inflammatory posts not really the sort of member you should be aligning yourself with.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota_Chey View Post
    I still hold, that if your dog is on a lead, and another comes up to it and harrasses it, you have a lead in your hand, you have some control. The off lead dog owner clearly has none if the dog has refused a recall.
    I would invest energy in training my dog, not other owners.

    Being able to break a dog fight up is essential, for the very reasons given, that people do just let their dogs run off lead, regardless of what jurisdiction there is.
    And a dog on the leash, is controllable. VERY.
    If you are unable to control your dog, on a leash, then repeat your training till you have the control required to not be risk to others.

    Surely. posted once again by Bernie. and for the record, I am still working out how to post quotes from previous threads, so my apologies, but feel free to track back at your leisure, until I have a handle on this.

    I would have thought it clear since you say you have re-read the threads that you would have somehow gained the introspect that Just a Vent thread beginning with Goldie was about individuals that were frustrated with dogs off their leashes, anywhere, anytime-imposing on their dogs that were on leashes and under owner control. My final statement in my very first post surely demonstrated my support of owners being over it with regard to doing the right thing and irresponsible owners of off the leash dogs whether under effective control or not, invading the space without prior consent of leashed (assuming a normal leash to dog space-in the case of my particular dog ( a short leash, under two feet to my hand and pulled in closer when the need had arisen) -in my original post, and it surely was not necessary to dribble out the entire a & b's of why I believe this should be the case as one would assume that I was supportive with a subjective hindsight of experiential observation.

    Clearly, since that first post in which I have noticed others posting similar stories, that received no pep talks from users such as bernie, or yourself. I agree to disagree, but in hindsight 'back up the truck and bugger off are replies that I have recieved for actually initially posting a point of view that clearly was in support of leashed dogs being left alone by intrusive actions of those dogs not on leads. As for collusion, the exempler to this is the fact that posts since my post have been actually written and paraphrase support to my original context and contention. Those received support-mine received judgement and pep talks. It appears that the most posts have been posted by one particular user over and above my posts, so please refrain from scapegoating, it is clear to see that posts supporting a leashed under control dog needing retraining-when others are free to approach, start a fight, jump on, knock over and so on and so forth is absolutely preponderous and in addition to being bombproof is a false sense of reality, (my unbiased opinion-and that of many professional trainers. if you care to track back in truism, you may see that there was no room for compromising situations...which incidently, many have posted stories about-just that (compromising situations that lead to certain consequences for those doing the right thing legally,.furthermore, no council in any state, that is any state would consider for one moment holding a dog or its owner responsible for a dog that was unleashed, intimidating or aggressive toward that owner or their leashed dog. The reponsibility does not lay with the leashed dogs owner to retrain as there is nothing to retrain for. Mr kfuller-whom is my alter ego-suggestive( according to another source of inflammation) has nothing to do with me, but I saw the same thing happening with that user and actually felt for them because I can read through the lines, not just the lines-and felt they also may be in jeopardy of the same issue, however their gripes were with large dogs bouldering up to their small dog.

    On that note much has been posted supporting the reasons that owners pick up little dogs whom are at jeopardy from injury and those posts have received thankyous, etc and nothing negative has been posted back to the users, nor has the user bernie received any negative feedback from the bombproof, the retraining thing, should bloody well behave itself (and to what degree under what circumstances? oh forgive my lack of intellect-anytime and everytime, even when there is a bomb in its face)-no room for loss óf face, or anything that may reflect owner has lost some control)lol. but for the exception of one post about those particular comments.
    Forum threads are like a conversation between a lot of people. Not all posts that are within a thread are in response to the initial thread, in fact most will discuss their opinions and how they differ to the initial or to the other posters responses. This is something I don't think you have a grasp of at this point.

    In saying that I believe that YOU AS THE OWNER are responsible for YOUR DOGS SAFETY & BEHAVIOUR. I can put my dog in a sit/stay and intercept a strange dog approaching. I can and do put myself between my dog and a strange dog. Yes the owner of the dog that attacked yours was in the wrong for having no control of their dog. YOU ARE ALSO IN THE WRONG because YOU did not intercept that dog, you allowed it to get close enough to your dog to attack her and when she's on a 2 foot leash she can't defend herself or get away. You just said yourself that she was on a 2 foot leash drawn close to your side. (quoted just below)

    (assuming a normal leash to dog space-in the case of my particular dog ( a short leash, under two feet to my hand and pulled in closer when the need had arisen)
    I have scruffed other peoples dogs, I have grabbed their collars and pinned them to the ground when they have approached my dog aggressively. I have also made sure that I can read canine body language and I read my dog and the approaching dog very quickly and make my decision based on that. I don't care how the owner reacts, my priority is protecting my dog, ensuring he is safe at all times. He is my responsibility. It is not his responsibility to protect me - it is mine to protect him.

    Now, you are a human being living in the real world (assumption). You are a caring dog owner (assumption again). Yet rather than intercept a strange dog approaching your dog off leash, you choose to pin your dog to your side and allow that dog to keep coming at you (my understanding from your post). That is foolish to my way of thinking.

    Your posts are hard to understand as you over complicate things with your language. There is a small rule of thumb I try to follow. It's the KISS theory - I am certain you have heard of it.

    I don't expect my dog to be bombproof. I expect my dog to obey me. I posess the logical thinking, the rationale to asses and react to the situation. My dog is still very young and has not matured that much so I do the thinking. Not to mention as a dog owner your dog must be under your control - that is AUSTRALIAN LAW. No matter which way you put it that is the way it is.

    Now, I have not read ANYTHING of the previous thread you keep going on about. I have ONLY read this one and I WILL NOT read the other. I have ONLY the information you have provided within this thread.

    When you are quoting all you need to do is put [ quote ] (without the spaces) in front of the text you have quoted and put [ /quote ] (again without the spaces) behind it. There is also a small icon above the area you type that looks like a little speech bubble. If you click on that it will automatically put the quote commands around whatever text you have highlighted.

    As far as reading 'between' the lines of text, I cannot do that. I have no idea how you think nor do I know the intention behind what you have posted. All I know about you is what I see that you have typed. Every person thinks differently and reacts differently, I WILL NOT spend time agonising about all of the possible ways that someone may have intended a post, I could waste my entire life doing that and I have better things to do with my time.

    ETA: I agree with Bernie on the following:

    I still hold, that if your dog is on a lead, and another comes up to it and harrasses it, you have a lead in your hand, you have some control. The off lead dog owner clearly has none if the dog has refused a recall.
    I would invest energy in training my dog, not other owners.

    Being able to break a dog fight up is essential, for the very reasons given, that people do just let their dogs run off lead, regardless of what jurisdiction there is.
    And a dog on the leash, is controllable. VERY.
    If you are unable to control your dog, on a leash, then repeat your training till you have the control required to not be risk to others.
    This is completely accurate.
    Last edited by AngelanBatty; 05-16-2011 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelanBatty View Post
    Forum threads are like a conversation between a lot of people. Not all posts that are within a thread are in response to the initial thread, in fact most will discuss their opinions and how they differ to the initial or to the other posters responses. This is something I don't think you have a grasp of at this point.

    In saying that I believe that YOU AS THE OWNER are responsible for YOUR DOGS SAFETY & BEHAVIOUR. I can put my dog in a sit/stay and intercept a strange dog approaching. I can and do put myself between my dog and a strange dog. Yes the owner of the dog that attacked yours was in the wrong for having no control of their dog. YOU ARE ALSO IN THE WRONG because YOU did not intercept that dog, you allowed it to get close enough to your dog to attack her and when she's on a 2 foot leash she can't defend herself or get away. You just said yourself that she was on a 2 foot leash drawn close to your side. (quoted just below)



    I have scruffed other peoples dogs, I have grabbed their collars and pinned them to the ground when they have approached my dog aggressively. I have also made sure that I can read canine body language and I read my dog and the approaching dog very quickly and make my decision based on that. I don't care how the owner reacts, my priority is protecting my dog, ensuring he is safe at all times. He is my responsibility. It is not his responsibility to protect me - it is mine to protect him.

    Now, you are a human being living in the real world (assumption). You are a caring dog owner (assumption again). Yet rather than intercept a strange dog approaching your dog off leash, you choose to pin your dog to your side and allow that dog to keep coming at you (my understanding from your post). That is foolish to my way of thinking.

    Your posts are hard to understand as you over complicate things with your language. There is a small rule of thumb I try to follow. It's the KISS theory - I am certain you have heard of it.

    I don't expect my dog to be bombproof. I expect my dog to obey me. I posess the logical thinking, the rationale to asses and react to the situation. My dog is still very young and has not matured that much so I do the thinking. Not to mention as a dog owner your dog must be under your control - that is AUSTRALIAN LAW. No matter which way you put it that is the way it is.

    Now, I have not read ANYTHING of the previous thread you keep going on about. I have ONLY read this one and I WILL NOT read the other. I have ONLY the information you have provided within this thread.

    When you are quoting all you need to do is put [ quote ] (without the spaces) in front of the text you have quoted and put [ /quote ] (again without the spaces) behind it. There is also a small icon above the area you type that looks like a little speech bubble. If you click on that it will automatically put the quote commands around whatever text you have highlighted.

    As far as reading 'between' the lines of text, I cannot do that. I have no idea how you think nor do I know the intention behind what you have posted. All I know about you is what I see that you have typed. Every person thinks differently and reacts differently, I WILL NOT spend time agonising about all of the possible ways that someone may have intended a post, I could waste my entire life doing that and I have better things to do with my time.

    ETA: I agree with Bernie on the following:



    This is completely accurate.
    I will do myself the justice of allowing you to do the opposite of what you speak as you have better things to do with your time, yet you have made by far the most comments, side tracking and backtracking, yet admit to not reading the origin. That's great that you place yourself at risk and everyone admires a hero, however in the case of the particular labrador-you don't allow for compromising situations, it seems-in that there is your ignorance. So spare me the chaste and keep it simple. No justification from me with regard to dog lunging, grabbing face of dog at my side-or why, because you are on the money and read a split second moment like a true pro. What I have come to know, is that you cannot with 100% reliability read another dogs split second decision to spook and turn! then again I guess the professional whom told me that would not be as professional as you with 27 years of dog training under their belt.

  6. #56
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    Sorry, bear with me everyone whilst I work through this thread. I haven't come in to read it until now.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuller.k View Post
    So funny with this forum.

    I thought forums were there for people to have intense discussions.
    Not 'intense' discussions, just discussions.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  7. #57
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    Ok, I give up easily. What the hell is this thread about!

    Effective control can diminish in a millisecond. Dogs are animals. They are unpredictable.

    On lead, off lead, it doesn't matter. If there is evidence of someone controlling their dog or beleiving they have control fo their dog, that is good enough for me regardless of it being on lead or off lead.

    If my dog was on lead and attacked by another that was off lead, I would be just as upset as I would be if mine was also off lead. I would also understand that is is the nature of dogs and animals. If there was evidence that the owner of the attacking dog knew that there dog was likely to attack, I would be angry.

    So... um, what exactly is thsi thread about. The responses are so detailed and meandering and I feel I have missed something somehwere???
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  8. #58
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    I walk my two dogs in an off the leash park across the road where I live, it is so close that if it is late at night I dont use leads as I normally dont meet anyone in the park at 10pm, however one night two older ladies come to the park at 10pm and let their two Jack Russells free, I saw them about 100 metres away from me. I called my dogs to me and held them hoping the JRs would go the other way but no they came straight at me, my dogs just sat and let the JRs run around them and I was telling the ladies to control their dogs as mine will chase them if they run, they thought it was funny that their dogs werent obeying them and said that their dogs normally do as they are told. I had to raise me voice for them to come and get their dogs when one of the JRs came behind my dogs and nipped at her but she stayed in my head lock and ignored the JR, the ladies eventually got their dogs under control and I went home. I learnt a good lesson and no matter what time i go for a walk I always now use a collar and lead. However on another night again the JR came to the park at 10.30pm the JR we let out of the car and they took off straight at me and my dogs, this time I didnt see them coming unti it was too late and my dogs spotted the JR and took off to meet them which turned into a chase and lots of sqealling (like they were being ripped apart) from the JRs, once the JRs turned away and run back to the ladies my dogs came and stood with me back on guard, they didnt get hold of the JRs but if they did I am sure they would have done some damage. I have never seen them or the ladies again and hope I never do. At least if two big dogs have a fight the blame can sit with either or both when compared to when a large and small dog come to blows the big dog will always be blamed even if the small dog is the agressive one. I tink if you haev big dogs you have to be alert for the small ones all the time and judging form the Paws walk yesterday there a lot more smaller dogs then big. Maybe they should get their own off leash park.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    Ok, I give up easily. What the hell is this thread about!

    Effective control can diminish in a millisecond. Dogs are animals. They are unpredictable.

    On lead, off lead, it doesn't matter. If there is evidence of someone controlling their dog or beleiving they have control fo their dog, that is good enough for me regardless of it being on lead or off lead.

    If my dog was on lead and attacked by another that was off lead, I would be just as upset as I would be if mine was also off lead. I would also understand that is is the nature of dogs and animals. If there was evidence that the owner of the attacking dog knew that there dog was likely to attack, I would be angry.

    So... um, what exactly is thsi thread about. The responses are so detailed and meandering and I feel I have missed something somehwere???
    LMAO I don't even know how to explain it Anne.

    The OP can be quite detailed maybe too much, lots of words that don't mean much.

    Basically this refers back to the "Just a Vent" thread started by I think Gold-Dog.

    The OP is asking when we think it is appropriate for our dogs to not be bombproof. Ie: if a dog off leash runs at you with your on-lead dog then gets up in your dogs face, barking etc do you expect your dog to be perfectly behaved and expect yourself to have full control or do you feel you have some leeway for your dog to react to the other dog.

    There were a few replies and then Fuller K came charging in abusing members (as you can see Fuller K has been banned) we responded to Fuller.K and somehow our responses to Fuller.K offended the OP and she/he felt we were attacking them and it has just rolled on from that.

    What the OP seems to have missed is that overall the majority of forum members have agreed with him/her that we don't expect our dogs to be "bombproof" if an off leash dog comes charging at them. But that we as their owners are responsible for protecting them even if that means getting in the way of the other dog and trying to scare it off/kick it etc.
    Last edited by Keira & Phoenix; 05-16-2011 at 01:52 PM.

  10. #60
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    there is a show on channel 7 running at this moment. A woman has received substantial muscle and nerve damage defending her dog from another dog in attack toward her dog. At no point have I said, or been given the chance to state that I indeed have and would intervene as best I could whilst my near 40kilo dog is on leash and under attack. Angelanbatty appear to think that they have ultimate control over such events occuring, further stating that they often scruff hold the offenders dog or offending dog and take them to the ground. I would like to see that apply with a large labrador as what happened in my case. The program currently showing the risk associated with this predominant thinking is called medical emergency for those who maybe interested in the verdict.

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