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Thread: What on Earth is a Mini Groodle?

  1. #141
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    Darn new computer posted before I put this up, go take a look at the Neos about third breed down on this blog, winners at CRUFTS among them
    Quality CL ? utter stupidity and genetic cruelty, would not want to use one of those even to cross breed with. Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog

    Get a life for goodness sake, what I am doing is none of your worry, it has all been looked into aleady, by all means go ahead with our complaint I will be interested to see just who you are, I do not hide who I am, nor what I do.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    Do you use registered dogs of one breed over registered dogs (or any dog) of another breed though?

    How do you 'create' your Bandogs?
    Not sure what part of my reply is above your ability to comprehend Anne, but just to make it very simple so you can get it, the reason for DNA profiling is that, even after a dog is dead, that DNA is still stored and you can go back and prove bloodlines and be certain of them being correct.

    So do you want to (we are looking at some 15 years here) go back over many generations of my dogs to see what is what? quite happy to do it as long as you pay of course,be handy to know I did not store all that DNA for nothing all this time.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    Not sure what part of my reply is above your ability to comprehend Anne, but just to make it very simple so you can get it, the reason for DNA profiling is that, even after a dog is dead, that DNA is still stored and you can go back and prove bloodlines and be certain of them being correct.

    So do you want to (we are looking at some 15 years here) go back over many generations of my dogs to see what is what? quite happy to do it as long as you pay of course,be handy to know I did not store all that DNA for nothing all this time.
    There is no need for rudeness. I simply asked a question, to which you have still not directly responded.

    Your defensiveness and inability to answer directly gives me my answer though.

    Your credibility as a 'breeder' seems questionable.

    I should also add that I am not a fan of DNA and to my knowledge, DNA can not show lineage.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  4. #144

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    I'm with Anne, after reading your website your breeder credibility is dubious at best.

    If you claim to have had/have champion show dogs then stop bagging out the ANKC and supporting the anti-pedigree blog!
    The current Neo breed leader for Aus is absolutely gorgeous, as was the Crufts winner, if you don't like the breed why bother trying to breed them?

  5. #145
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    DNA can show lineage and relationships to an extent, each puppy can only get DNA from its parents. If neither parent has the gene, the puppy won't have it either. If the puppy has genes that neither parent has then that puppy has been credited the wrong parents, if the puppy only has genes that match with one parent and not the other, then that other dog is not the parent. Ie DNA can be used to prove out crossing - or wrongly crediting the parent.

    And the same deal if all the grand parents are known, the puppy can only have combinations of genes that those grand parents have. So if the puppy has some genes that none of the grand parents have - then something is wrong.

    It is possible for a few genes to flip by mutation - caused by radiation (eg sunlight) or illness. Flu is a common way to "splice" genes into live dna ie you have a gene you want to put into an animal - you deliver it with a certain kind of modified flu or virus. This is how GM plants are made. Not sure how much work is being done with animals - given how much objection to animal experimentation there is, but there's probably some. And they also use stem cells (mostly from adult humans these days) for the same sort of experimentation.

    So DNA is the ultimate indicator of family relationships. But it helps if you know (or think you know) all the ancestors and descendents, and have DNA for all of them. Hence how useful DNA databases are.

    But the less you know about the (purported) ancestry - the less certain you can be of the parentage... if you don't have enough DNA samples for comparing.

    At the moment, there is not enough DNA on the databases that will reliably indicate what breed a dog is. There are a lot of reasons for this. The main one (my guess) is that while ANKC keeps a written record of dog ancestry and breed lines, it doesn't have a DNA database - so what people have written might not be the truth (and this may or may not be deliberate).

    As DNA technology improves, and DNA databases become more complete (with the kennel clubs) it will be harder and harder to cheat the system this way. But until the resources of the ANKCs of this world allow DNA databases to be kept and require DNA samples to be sent in for each puppy, secret or accidental outcrossing will still be able to happen. Given the state of some gene pools of some dog breeds - this can be a good thing.

    I think someone else picked on minibull about this and - well - care factor. Not high here.

  6. #146
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    How the ethics of someone breeding this...



    ... over this...



    be dubious?

    Beautiful dog, MBM.

  7. #147

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    The dog posted at the top is not very close to the breed standard.

    Breed standard calls for heavy wrinkling and loose skin over the entire body.
    Due to his massive structure, his characteristic movement is rolling and lumbering, not elegant or showy.
    A stocky, heavy boned dog, massive in substance, rectangular in proportion.
    Differentiated from that of other mastiff breeds by more extensive wrinkling and pendulous lips which blend into an ample dewlap. Toplines of cranium and the muzzle must be parallel. The face is made up of heavy wrinkles and folds. Required folds are those extending from the outside margin of the eyelids to the dewlap, and from under the lower lids to the outer edges of the lips. Severe Faults: Toplines of the cranium and muzzle not parallel. Disqualifications: Absence of wrinkles and folds. Expression: Wistful at rest, intimidating when alert. Penetrating stare. Eyes: Set deep and almost hidden beneath drooping upper lids. Lower lids droop to reveal haw.

    Kristy 07, what do you find wrong about the second dog, here are some examples that look very similar...




  8. #148
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    I must say as a Neo owner if you dont like the breed as per standard then why get involved in it?






    And yes MBM you never once answered Anne's question which by all means was a reasonable one.

  9. #149
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    Sorry, CL, for not wanting a wordy debate over this at this time of the night. But, basically, I see health and vitality in a dog with full functionality in the first example of my post, but I don't in the second example. This is a very simple explanation of my thoughts on the subject of breed standards and pure breeds.

    The faces of the neos in your post look similar, and there are things even them that I disagree with, the eyes being a notable feature, in this respect. However, if you look through the entire blog article posted by MBM, the wrinkling and excess skin, not just on the dogs' faces, but also their legs and bodies, is unnecessary, among other things, in my opinion.

    My opinion on the extreme examples of pure breeds in shows is not unique, or even uncommon, these days. I'm sure it's suffice to say that I most certainly fall into "that" camp when it comes to breeds like neos and bassets and others, where the health and function of the animals' bodies are placed second to their aesthetics.

    I'm not really a part of this debate, nor do I intend to be. I just thought it worth pointing out that just because someone doesn't appear to be aiming for the extreme end of the breed's standard doesn't mean that their ethics, or their motivations, are dubious.

    *Don't get me wrong, Neos are a gorgeous breed. Peter, I was admiring the dog in your avatar earlier today, and think he is stunning. The dogs shown in the article I referred to show dogs of the same breed that look remarkably different.

  10. #150
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    Have to say the winner in the blog is over the top, am i right to say its also in the UK?
    That said the ones from the US look like crossbreeds bearing little or no resemblence to the breed other than size.
    One could say its from one exaggeration to another, it covers none of what i would deem to be the majority somewhere in between those. Exclusions like this make for a good story that said giving that dog best of the breed IMO is not the best decision.

    Kristy, my avatar is actually Nero's father.


    Oh and the one in the bottom of CL's post absolutely gorgeous.

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