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Thread: Can You Inbreed Pedigree Dogs??

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post

    What I am saying is that inbreeding has its place if you understand what you are doing. Some of the most successful and experienced working dog breeders worldwide use inbreeding and knowing the quality of some of the dogs they produce I dont doubt iin the right hands it works well.
    That is just the point, and whilst no doubt right Kc, I think too many got the idea that they know what they doing and have taken it way too far, and with working dogs culling is fiece, with show/pet dogs anything born is often kept and later can wind up being used for breeding on

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    That is just the point, and whilst no doubt right Kc, I think too many got the idea that they know what they doing and have taken it way too far, and with working dogs culling is fiece, with show/pet dogs anything born is often kept and later can wind up being used for breeding on
    I think many do not not know what they are doing and use it inappropriately. It is a very valuable tool in the right hands with a small number of exceptional dogs. It is not something to be used in a ad hoc widespread manner.

    Just reading some of the mathematical probability calculations and the sheer knowledge of the heritiability and the heritability combinations of certain working traits that is required makes my head spin. So I am quite sure that very few truly understand but there are some that do and some exceptionally top animals are the result.

    So I agree it is probably not overley appropriate for many pet dog breeders but it is not bad per se in the right hands when used wisely.

  3. #63
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    Totally agree, Kc, I have read of desert tribes who bred great working dogs yet who had no formal knowledge of the coe efficients of inbreeding nor any access to DNA testing, but they knew their dogs, lived with them, worked with them, and harsh life style for man and dog sorted out any weaknesses, today, we do need all the tools we can get to breed healthier and better dogs and too many think inbreeding, and I will not call it anything else, is the way to go it is not, for these breeders, any way to go

    And if this thread is on the level, we have no registering body in this country worth a pinch of the proverbial, if an ANKC body is really registering inbred pups, bred from all ressessive colored parents and has actually aproved that kennel as a step above all ordinary members (who are only breeding to better the breed anyway according to rules)
    Where do we go from here.

  4. #64

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    And in truth,that really is the question MB....where to from here indeed.
    GageDesign Pet Photography
    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    And in truth,that really is the question MB....where to from here indeed.
    Buggered if I know, back to the bush where it is said men are men and dogs are great offsiders.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    I dont know this breeder or how ethical they are or not.

    I will say this about inbreeding and linebreeding. Close breeding in sheepdogs is common as many attributes are being selected for at once. Several genetisists have commented that more opportunities are lost by inbreeding when inbreeding would be advisable than are lost by too much inbreeding. One of the top sheepdog breeders says that the exceptional ability of many top dogs has been wasted by fear of close breeding.

    A breeder can calculate the dogs level of inbreeding by various mathematical formulas that the top breeders are well aware of.

    Inbreeding can be used responsibly to really select for and enhance the most desirable traits.

    It is a tool that is extremely important in a breeding program but needs a deep understanding of genetics and the heritable traits and lethality of certain genes.

    Obviously a top sheepdog breeder does not breed for colour!
    Some good points there.
    Many kelpies and ACDs these days come from lines where inbreeding has been used to fix traits.
    It's a double sided sword though some breeders bred lines of idiot dogs. They tried to fix some desirable traits(like looks, head shape etc) and inadvertently fixed unwanted traits at the same time.
    Inbreeding has its place but it's not for a puppy farm that is just out to make money.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bundybear View Post
    Some good points there.
    Many kelpies and ACDs these days come from lines where inbreeding has been used to fix traits.
    It's a double sided sword though some breeders bred lines of idiot dogs. They tried to fix some desirable traits(like looks, head shape etc) and inadvertently fixed unwanted traits at the same time.
    Inbreeding has its place but it's not for a puppy farm that is just out to make money.
    The people who did the breeding of those kelpies and ACD's would probably also put a bullet in them if they were no good. Sad but true.

    I lived on a NT Station with my parents and I know what happened there to a dog that was no good. And I am sure that was not a rare happening in those days. Probably even now on the Stations.
    If they didn't work, they were gone.......That is what our Manager would do and most of the guys who had dogs

    My Dad was also very severe with his GSD's, but they were spayed/neutered.
    Pets are forever

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    That is just the point, and whilst no doubt right Kc, I think too many got the idea that they know what they doing and have taken it way too far, and with working dogs culling is fiece, with show/pet dogs anything born is often kept and later can wind up being used for breeding on
    You seem to be a self proclaimed expert on Neapolitan Mastiffs
    I think a lot of what you say ignorance and you are misinforming the newbies to the breed, I have had this breed longer than you and have had success with true Italian type blood lines who live a long life and dont look like a great dane x Lab, if you dont have it and cant either afford or access the quality blood lines DONT knock it.

    Funny how you and your crony where ready to call Gheno blood lines but yet when you where called out about one of your own dogs you went to water.

    Keep it real

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    You seem to be a self proclaimed expert on Neapolitan Mastiffs
    I think a lot of what you say ignorance and you are misinforming the newbies to the breed, I have had this breed longer than you and have had success with true Italian type blood lines who live a long life and dont look like a great dane x Lab, if you dont have it and cant either afford or access the quality blood lines DONT knock it.

    Funny how you and your crony where ready to call Gheno blood lines but yet when you where called out about one of your own dogs you went to water.

    Keep it real
    Are you kidding I myself have alot of Neo knowledge & what minibull has is far closer to the origanal neo's.
    Neo's are not meant to be drawfs with wrinkles that cause skin inferctions or to have such low uminities they can hardley surivive in todays world nevermind the over big body on short legs & unable to get around the ring without a good rest after. I over 20 years ago knew of Neo's who could scale 8 foot fences & run flat out for more than 10 steps.
    Why would you come on here & say such things if you have an issue take it up with her in private because what you have just done makes you look very small & immature in general so if your issues valid you hjave done yourself no favours.
    Dogs make everyday life enjoyable...........

  10. #70

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    Inbreeding when done as close as some are suggesting only works well at all if your willing to cull heavily & not only when the dogs are young. And since we now know how to acheive the same with tight pedigrees we do not need to breed as close as 1 generation anymore hardley ever. I am not saying there is never a reason but I am saying that generaly speaking you can acheive the same by studing the outcomes of different outcrosses & keeping a pedigrtee tight with only well reserch outcrosses. This sort of longterm breeding plan will gain you much more than a 1 off 1 generation inbreeding.
    Great topic by the way.
    Dogs make everyday life enjoyable...........

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