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Thread: Amstaff V Pitbull

  1. #71

    Default Wrong wrong wrong

    Amstaffs after 150 years of breeding are not the same dog as a PitBull.

    People need to take a step back and have a look at the breed standards of both dogs!
    It is a major fault for an Amstaff to have a pink nose, but in a Pitbull it is regarded as excellent. It's a throw back from the pitbull therfore it is looked down upon in Amstaffs as they are not the same dog!

    It's like calling a doberman a rottweiler! The doberman came from a rottweiler but it is clearly not the same dog.

    All dogs come from the wolf (Canis Lupus) but clearly the a pug dog looks nothing like a wolf.

    Breed Standard For The Amstaff (Take not how short in size an Amstaff should be - unlike the huge dogs getting around now which are not correct to the standard)

    General Impression
    The American Staffordshire Terrier should give the impression of great strength for his size, a well put-together dog, muscular, but agile and graceful, keenly alive to his surroundings. He should be stocky, not long-legged or racy in outline. His courage is proverbial.

    Head
    Medium length, deep through, broad skull, very pronounced cheek muscles, distinct stop; and ears are set high. Ears - Cropped or uncropped, the latter preferred. Uncropped ears should be short and held rose or half prick. Full drop to be penalized. Eyes - Dark and round, low down in skull and set far apart. No pink eyelids. Muzzle - Medium length, rounded on upper side to fall away abruptly below eyes. Jaws well defined. Underjaw to be strong and have biting power. Lips close and even, no looseness. Upper teeth to meet tightly outside lower teeth in front. Nose definitely black.

    Neck
    Heavy, slightly arched, tapering from shoulders to back of skull. No looseness of skin. Medium length.

    Shoulders
    Strong and muscular with blades wide and sloping.

    Back
    Fairly short. Slight sloping from withers to rump with gentle short slope at rump to base of tail. Loins slightly tucked.

    Body
    Well-sprung ribs, deep in rear. All ribs close together. Forelegs set rather wide apart to permit chest development. Chest deep and broad.

    Tail
    Short in comparison to size, low set, tapering to a fine point; not curled or held over back. Not docked.

    Legs
    The front legs should be straight, large or round bones, pastern upright. No semblance of bend in front. Hindquarters well-muscled, let down at hocks, turning neither in nor out. Feet of moderate size, well-arched and compact. Gait must be springy but without roll or pace.

    Coat
    Short, close, stiff to the touch, and glossy.

    Color
    Any color, solid, parti, or patched is permissible, but all white, more than 80 per cent white, black and tan, and liver not to be encouraged.

    Size
    Height and weight should be in proportion. A height of about 18 to 19 inches at shoulders for the male and 17 to 18 inches for the female is to be considered preferable.

    Faults
    Faults to be penalized are: Dudley nose, light or pink eyes, tail too long or badly carried, undershot or overshot mouths.

    Approved June 10, 1936


  2. #72

    Default Pit Bull Standard

    Ok take notice to the eyes, Amstaffs should not have almond shaped eyes but pitbulls can. Head is different, weight is different, nose colour different, gate different.

    Also PitBulls have many bad characteristics that an Amstaff does not have as it has been bred out of the dog from over a 150 years.

    Use ya brain the dogs are clearly 2 different types of dogs!



    Head



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The APBT head is unique and a key element of breed type. It is large and broad, giving the impression of great power, but it is not disproportionate to the size of the body. Viewed from the front, the head is shaped like a broad, blunt wedge. When viewed from the side, the skull and muzzle are parallel to one another and joined by a well defined, moderately deep stop. Supraorbital arches over the eyes are well defined but not pronounced. The head is well chiseled, blending strength, elegance, and character.
    SKULL - The skull is large, flat or slightly rounded, deep, and broad between the ears. Viewed from the top, the skull tapers just slightly toward the stop. There is a deep median furrow that diminishes in depth from the stop to the occiput. Cheek muscles are prominent but free of wrinkles. When the dog is concentrating, wrinkles form on the forehead, which give the APBT his unique expression.
    MUZZLE - The muzzle is broad and deep with a very slight taper from the stop to the nose, and a slight falling away under the eyes. The length of muzzle is shorter than the length of skull, with a ratio of approximately 2:3. The topline of the muzzle is straight. The lower jaw is well developed, wide and deep. Lips are clean and tight.
    Faults: Snipey muzzle; flews; weak lower jaw.
    TEETH - The American Pit Bull Terrier has a complete set of evenly spaced, white teeth meeting in a scissors bite. Fault: Level bite.

    Serious Faults: Undershot, or overshot bite; wry mouth; missing teeth (this does not apply to teeth that have been lost or removed by a veterinarian).
    NOSE - The nose is large with wide, open nostrils. The nose may be any color.

    EYES - Eyes are medium size, round to almond-shaped, and set well apart and low on the skull. All colors are equally acceptable except blue, which is a serious fault. Haw should not be visible.

    Serious Faults: Bulging eyes; both eyes not matched in color; blue eyes.

    EARS - Ears are high set and may be natural or cropped without preference. If natural, semi-prick or rose are preferred. Prick or flat, wide ears are not desired.
    Neck

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The neck is of moderate length and muscular. There is a slight arch at the crest. The neck widens gradually from where it joins the skull to where it blends into well laid-back shoulders. The skin on the neck is tight and without dewlap.

    Faults: Neck too short and thick; thin or weak neck; ewe neck; dewlap.
    Forequarters

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The shoulder blades are long, wide, muscular, and well laid back. The upper arm is roughly equal in length to the shoulder blade and joins it at an apparent right angle.

    The forelegs are strong and muscular. The elbows are set close to the body. Viewed from the front, the forelegs are set moderately wide apart and perpendicular to the ground. The pasterns are short, powerful, straight, and flexible. When viewed in profile, the pasterns are nearly erect.

    Faults: Upright or loaded shoulders; elbows turned outward or tied-in; down at the pasterns; front legs bowed; wrists knuckled over; toeing in or out.
    Body

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The chest is deep, well filled in, and moderately wide with ample room for heart and lungs, but the chest should never be wider than it is deep. The forechest does not extend much beyond the point of shoulder. The ribs extend well back and are well sprung from the spine, then flattening to form a deep body extending to the elbows. The back is strong and firm. The topline inclines very slightly downward from the withers to a broad, muscular, level back. The loin is short, muscular and slightly arched to the top of the croup, but narrower than the rib cage and with a moderate tuck-up. The croup is slightly sloping downward.
    Hindquarters

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The hindquarters are strong, muscular, and moderately broad. The rump is well filled in on each side of the tail and deep from the pelvis to the crotch. The bone, angulation, and musculature of the hindquarters are in balance with the forequarters. The thighs are well developed with thick, easily discerned muscles. Viewed from the side, the hock joint is well bent and the rear pasterns are well let down and perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, the rear pasterns are straight and parallel to one another.

    Faults: Narrow hindquarters; hindquarters shallow from pelvis to crotch; lack of muscle; straight or over angulated stifle joint; cow hocks; sickle hocks; bowed legs.
    Feet

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The feet are round, proportionate to the size of the dog, well arched, and tight. Pads are hard, tough, and well cushioned. Dewclaws may be removed.

    Fault: Splayed feet.
    Tail

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The tail is set on as a natural extension of the topline, and tapers to a point. When the dog is relaxed, the tail is carried low and extends approximately to the hock. When the dog is moving, the tail is carried level with the backline. When the dog is excited, the tail may be carried in a raised, upright position (challenge tail), but never curled over the back (*** tail).

    Fault: Long tail (tail tip passes beyond point of hock).

    Serious faults: *** tail (not to be confused with challenge tail); kinked tail.

    Disqualification: Bobbed tail.
    Coat

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The coat is glossy and smooth, close, and moderately stiff to the touch.

    Faults: Curly, wavy, or sparse coat.

    Disqualification: Long coat.
    Color

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Any color, color pattern, or combination of colors is acceptable, except for merle.

    Disqualification: Merle
    Height and Weight

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The American Pit Bull Terrier must be both powerful and agile so actual weight and height are less important than the correct proportion of weight to height. Desirable weight for a mature male in good condition is between 35 and 60 pounds. Desirable weight for a mature female in good condition is between 30 and 50 pounds. Dogs over these weights are not to be penalized unless they are disproportionately massive or rangy.
    Gait

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The American Pit Bull Terrier moves with a jaunty, confident attitude, conveying the impression that he expects any minute to see something new and exciting. When trotting, the gait is effortless, smooth, powerful, and well coordinated, showing good reach in front and drive behind. When moving, the backline remains level with only a slight flexing to indicate suppleness. Viewed from any position, legs turn neither in nor out, nor do feet cross or interfere with each other. As speed increases, feet tend to converge toward center line of balance.

    Faults: Legs not moving on the same plane; legs over reaching; legs crossing over in front or rear; rear legs moving too close or touching; rolling; pacing; paddling; sidewinding; hackney action; pounding.

    Disqualifications: Unilateral or bilateral cryptorchid. Viciousness or extreme shyness. Unilateral or bilateral deafness. Bobbed tail. Albinism. Merle.

  3. #73
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    Only skimmed through this but saw no particular stress placed on temperament, which is far more important in any breed than conformation, I am not an expert on the old Pit dogs but understand that they were bred NEVER to bite man, also knew a lady many years ago who travelled this country in a ute with a half dozen Pits on the back, no fights among those dogs, they went wherever she went loosely tied on, and no fights, to use the dogs who are today called Pits is no more correct than to try and distance the American Staffy from them, and make out the A S are now a more stable breed is bull, where and how are either type now tested for true temperament I would wonder.

    The old style Pit dogs were severely culled for temperament and health, today's so called Pits are not, nor is the Am Staff, more notice is taken of appearance, this is wrong.

  4. #74

    Default

    Very interesting thread...

    My parents have a 1.5 year old english staff male, he is 15" tall(pretty small compared to some of the english staffs i have seen) and within the 14-16" that the breed standard calls for. He is an absolute fantastic dog. Super temperament and is highly obedient and social with all animals and people. I love the look of all the bull terriers including the ABPT(the lean athletic ones not the overgrown monsters)

    I own a GSD and the two get on like a house on fire. The staff is 'The Boss' as my GSD is only 9 months of age.

    When i finally build my own house and have room for more dogs i plan to get another dog. I was planning on getting another GSD or english staff, but to be different i think ill get a Amstaff.

    Who would be the best breeders to source an Amstaff that is within the breed standard and has the more athletic look about them and is of course healthy.

    Dont mind paying a bit because the enjoyment i get out of spending time with dogs is priceless, they truly are mans best friend.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    South Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggatas View Post
    Very interesting thread...

    My parents have a 1.5 year old english staff male, he is 15" tall(pretty small compared to some of the english staffs i have seen) and within the 14-16" that the breed standard calls for. He is an absolute fantastic dog. Super temperament and is highly obedient and social with all animals and people. I love the look of all the bull terriers including the ABPT(the lean athletic ones not the overgrown monsters)

    I own a GSD and the two get on like a house on fire. The staff is 'The Boss' as my GSD is only 9 months of age.

    When i finally build my own house and have room for more dogs i plan to get another dog. I was planning on getting another GSD or english staff, but to be different i think ill get a Amstaff.

    Who would be the best breeders to source an Amstaff that is within the breed standard and has the more athletic look about them and is of course healthy.

    Dont mind paying a bit because the enjoyment i get out of spending time with dogs is priceless, they truly are mans best friend.

    Have a look around. I have. Personally I would go through Mischiefmaka Kennels. She is a member here as you will see if you browse through the first few pages of this thread. When I get my next dog, Im hoping it will be from her.

    Oh and the first highlighted comment.......you mean like my girl?


  6. #76

    Default

    thanks for the reply.

    Yeh exactly, spot on, beautiful looking girl...

    I'm not realy sure on the opinions of desexing, but i have no plans to breed him/her so i would be definately be desexing, as with the GSD, he is already neutered.

  7. #77
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    Apr 2009
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    Melbourne
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    the breed standards are all very well and good but in real life you have many people who are not breeding anywhere near the breed standard, even in show circles and on the street, in the shelters, there is no way to tell them apart, there are plenty of breeds who look similar but have distinguishing marks that can be spotted in these situations, but the amstaff and pitty dont. its as simple as that. they have been two different breeds for only a short time, especially compared to other breeds.

    the point is, even the most well-versed judge would be hard pressed to tell the difference from two dogs in real life
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz Tarja View Post
    the point is, even the most well-versed judge would be hard pressed to tell the difference from two dogs in real life
    The trouble is that the Gold Coast council rangers, and problaby most rangers can't tell an Amstaff from a Pitbull from a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, from a Boxer, from a Mastiff, from a bull terrier (I kid you not - a professional dog trainer referred to a show winning champion bull terrier as a Pitbull for an entire day).

    Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull

    As for "in real life" - is there any other kind of life? For a dog?

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    ... from a bull terrier (I kid you not - a professional dog trainer referred to a show winning champion bull terrier as a Pitbull for an entire day).
    Sounds like a true professional... not!

  10. #80
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    He was very apologetic when we pointed out what he'd been doing. He did know better, he just had one of those brain fade moments. All day.

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