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Thread: Breeding for the Show Ring...the Other Side.

  1. #11
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    Oh pleaseyou have missed the point entiely!

    Get off you high horse for one moment.

    IF you were actually honest and sincere you would be familiar with and recognise the genuine concerns raised by so many re breeding practices for the ring. I might add these welfare concerns are being addressed by every breed group and org associated!

    Over tired and showing off so soon!

    Nic

  2. #12

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    if i were Honest and sincere? Lol so now you know my personality and my motives too shit you and Ozeymum sure can tell a lot just by knowing i show dogs lol

    Boring....

  3. #13
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    A fully expected response and something for all to witness

    I dont care at all about your personality at all. Why would I? ego is a terrible thing and i now have a good idea of your ethics, including as a RB.

    The majority of great RB's have already recognised concerns, feel motivated to improve and have a view on the article posted.

    Perhaps you can find it within yourself to rise above your personal junk and adjendas and answer my last post, or more importantly give your views on the article posted originally.

    I will not speak for Ozeymum other than she is a respected member of this forum and you PALE in insignificance!

    Nic

  4. #14
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    There are two distinct issues here - aside from yalls personal issues

    1. Does a breeder breeder to improve the breed?
    2. Does a breeder sell with contracts/desex before rehoming

    I can tell you contracts rely on both parties being honest. I dobbed in someone I knew for not desexing their dog even though they were on contract. I was not popular on either side but I dont care lol

    I wont buy from a breeder that forces me to desex early. I desex at sexual maturity unless there are extenuating circumstances.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by MISCHIEFMAKA View Post
    What an extraordinary blanket statement to make about ppl you have never clapped eyes on
    So you " cant stand me" huh? you know NOTHING of me or what i do or what i believe in so who are you to sit behind a keyboard and make such rediculaous statements? how idiotic.

    I don't agree with anyone breeding dogs in any fashion that alters their health and natural well being

    Im an animal lover, been a Vegetarian for over 25 years, ive done rescue work with horses and farm animals for years, and ive helped on many OS campaigns to save countless wild life and abused dogs....and i SHOW DOGS so what? im a bad person???? My dogs love the interaction they get with other dogs at shows, its great for their socialization ( comes back to the DA thread too doesnt it?) and yeah i have bred Champions and im very proud of them all but i dont love them any more than my non champions and they all get treated the same... Im at a loss to see how anyone can say me spending quality time with my dogs on a weekend out showing is a bloody bad thing...
    Guess all them dogs that spend countless hours locked in their back yards home alone are so much better off arnet they? SPARE ME!
    Thank you Mischiefmaka!

    I show my dogs. They are washed, brushed, and put in the ring. I agree, I hate the primping brigade as well. But I don't engage in it. That is my own way of protesting against it. My dogs win as much (sometimes more!) than those primped and sprayed etc.

    Don't tar all people in a hobby with the same brush. I have seen many people with "pet" dogs who suffer more than my show dogs ever would - overbred for no other reason that their owners can't be bothered desexing or confining them, sitting on the back of ute trays in the hot sun... the list goes on.

    Desexing contracts are all well and good. But not always practical.

    Example: I bought my male dog as a pet. Paid a pet price with full ongoing breeder support. I planned to desex early, but the breeder advised to wait if it was practical. As he matured (which can take a long time in a large breed), turns out he has become one of the better representatives of his breed standard from his large litter. End result - again with full breeder support, he has launched us into showing and maybe one day breeding of our own.

    Our showing is a family affair, kids and all involved. Our dogs, like Mischiefmaka says - are out socialising every weekend, not sitting home in the backyard.

    My dog is an ambassador for his breed, purebred dogs and dogs in general. Yesterday he had countless members of the public stop in at where we were set up at a local Ag Show and talk about the dogs and different breeds, dog care etc. My boy met dozens of people, at one stage he had a family of three children and their parents (strangers to him) playing and sitting with him (and on him), loving them as he does all people.

    Don't be fooled by journalists and believe everything they write. Journalists have one agenda - to sell news. They don't care if dogs are suffering one way or another. But if they can highlight one aspect - a Peke sitting on ice? What were the circumstances? Did that dog have to do something physically excessive beforehand, that could affect many "pet" dogs in a similar way? Was it an isolated incident? They don't give details. Details don't sell. Sensationalism does.

    Crossbred dogs are just as prone to health problems. Plus no-one is screening them for any of them like many registered breeders do.
    Have look at this link - not a purebred by a long shot, and not an isolated case:

    http://www.wheredopuppiescomefrom.com.au/survivor-stories/murphys-story-pet-shop-pup/

    Lets all have a look at how healthy our individual dogs are, at what is provided for them when they need it. Sure purebred dogs have health problems, but consider this: if a crossbred has hereditary based health problems and is treated by a vet, does anyone collect the statistic on it? No. But if it is a breed that can be listed and surveyed, this is a different matter.

  6. #16
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    Hi Occy,

    I dont have any personal issues with anyone on this forum

    It is part of the course to disagree in an effort to reach an end result after all....

    So tell me Occy, what are your thoughts to pet over population and over 600,000 healthy, rehomeable pets being killed in pounds each year?

    What are your thoughts on the unplanned litters that end up in shelters, the off spring some of those who RB's sold?

    And for those lives who fall into the hands of Puppy Farmers, BYB and pet shops who live a life of misery and neglect?

    What are your thoughts with respect? and how on earth would you address the carnage?

    Nic

  7. #17
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    Nattylou,

    Good for you Hon, I love your thoughts and appreciate and respect your experiences.

    My OP was simply to point out the other side of showing. I do not believe it denegrates showing as a whole. There is good and bad to everything no question.

    Can i ask if there are absolutely no concerns, why are breed assoc and org's taking on this issue with a priority? and i can assure you they are. Here and overseas.

    As far as the little Peke girl goes, no one stands their dog on a block of ice for a few moments to get a prize simply beacuse the weather is warm! Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that her face was so flat she was unable to breath and regulate her body temp.

    Dogs should be able to be to be dogs! and that includes running around like a mad thing without sitting on a block of ice!

    Nic

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Dogs should be able to be to be dogs! and that includes running around like a mad thing without sitting on a block of ice!
    Couldn't agree more - the best time mine have is running (and I mean running, and if they couldn't do that (being sighthounds) life would be sub par for them.

    I've seen afghans who live in padded crates to preserve their coats - never running or playing. Not fair by any stretch of the imagination.
    But I've also seen pet old english sheepdogs who can't sit down due to matting and sores on their backside 'cause their owners don't look after their coats.

    Moderation in everything would seem like the key, but with moderation as a prime consideration would we actually have such a variety in size and type such as we love with our dogs?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Hi Occy,

    I dont have any personal issues with anyone on this forum

    It is part of the course to disagree in an effort to reach an end result after all....

    So tell me Occy, what are your thoughts to pet over population and over 600,000 healthy, rehomeable pets being killed in pounds each year?

    What are your thoughts on the unplanned litters that end up in shelters, the off spring some of those who RB's sold?

    And for those lives who fall into the hands of Puppy Farmers, BYB and pet shops who live a life of misery and neglect?

    What are your thoughts with respect? and how on earth would you address the carnage?

    Nic
    Nic

    You are talking to someone who has been doing rescue for 14 years. I don't have the answers and I don't plan on saving all of the dogs. I am not a martyr, I do what I can as I can.

    To answer you however:

    1. Most of the dogs in pounds are BYBs. In the GSD world registered dogs are tattooed at puppyhood - they have a big 3 letter and 3 number tattoo in their ears that makes them identifiable. There are a few unscrupulous breeders who may have a litter on the side but those people are not made by the system, they are just mongrels like other mongrels you get in this world. Until you create a fullproof method for assessing a dog breeder/owner you can only go by experience.

    I only care about my breed frankly - there are enough of them in pounds to keep me busy. I will ocassionally take a different breed for a rescue group but in general it is my breed I feel a responsibility towards.

    2. Unplanned litters 99% of the time are due to irresponsible pet ownership. You want to fix that? Don't allow human idiots to breed with other human idiots creating a race of super idiots

    3. How can you blame breeders for the unscrupulous acts of pet shop owners and puppy mills? Why are you not turning on them? The breeder sells their dog to the best home they can - they often turn people away - but some people are very good liars. There should be some sort of penalty for those who put animals in that position. Puppy mills should be exposed and the public education. This idiotic idea of - awww the poor puppy in the petshop let's save it - needs to quashed too. Every time you take a dog out of a petshop another will be found to fill its place.

    4. How would I address it?
    All breeders should be on a registered network so that when a dog is sold it is immediately registered with a council and the council checks up on the dog at age 6 months for small dogs/1yr for medium dogs/18 months for large dogs/2 years for giant breeds to see if it has been desexed.

    Very few pure bred giant breeds end up in shelters. Only recently have I noticed more danes. Why is this? IMO cause the small fluffy things have been bred for quick sale in puppy mills.

    Breeding unregistered dogs should be wholly banned with extreme penalties for those who BYB or breed without a license.

    There should be strict laws as to how many litters one person can produce from dogs in one year with a limit of someone owning say 3 bitches and one dog. This would force people to breed only the best dogs. Though by the same instance it will also create more BYB with people breeding unregistered litters. BUT if there is a national scheme for rehoming dogs and them being registered with the council by the seller not the purchaser this may be avoided.

    I have lots of ideas - but that is all they are. And while people go around arguing I simple do what I can when I can for the dogs I can help!


    Oh and fyi the saying is "par for the course" - it is a golfing term meaning "normal for the situation"

  10. #20
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    Hi Occy,

    How do you quote sections of a post!! I keep quoting the whole lot

    Thanks so much for your thoughts.

    I agree rescuers are so busy with their heads down and bums up saving lives, that the majority are to busy to address "flow' in pounds and shelters.

    Until we start working on flow, things will will only get worse. No, we can't save them all atm, i struggle with that personally.

    I disagree with you on your unplanned litter comments. The majority are probably good people and families who have no idea of the issues. There is no education out there really.

    Some are people who love their dog SO much, they think their offspring should enter the world for all to see...once again, lack of education.

    Some are families who want their children to witness the miracle of birth...once again, lack of education. Get a dvd and watch it as a family...

    I am not blamming RB's! The issue of desexing is a concerning one and one that needs to be addressed.

    IMO micro chipping laws need to be overhauled, improved and religiously enforced.

    This will also give stats as to where the dogs are coming from. Heavy penalties should apply for those who refuse to take a dog back into care and it should be recorded.

    Pet Shops selling live animals should be stopped. Puppy Farming must be made illegal.

    And education of the masses!

    Nic

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