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Thread: Thoughts from Breeders on Certain Crossbreeds?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Hmmmm, my opinion on that Kalacreek is different.
    You can own a working breed without them needing to be good herders.
    Like me and Hyacinth for example. I own a Kelpie X and Hyac owns a ACD X and neither of us have absolute desires for them to be workers(well, sorry, I'll speak for myself )
    I would trust a breeder(and still call them 'true') if they didn't work their dogs, I do in fact own a fit, athletic Kelpie that doesn't.

    If that makes sense..
    Yes I understand perfectly. I own 2 showbred ACDS and a showbred BC as well as my 3 working bred dogs that I use on my sheep. My showbreds are totaly useless on stock - either no instinct or no control but they are very fine pets and my ACDS are great agility dogs and my heart dogs.

    However there is no way in this world I would purchase a sheepdog that I wanted to work sheep with from a pet or show breeder. Breeding a true working dog meant for livestock is a true art.

    My main comment was when judges in the show ring say "looks like the dog could work all day". Owning a livestock enterprise as I do where my working dogs are key, I know that means absolutely nothing. Doesnt mean they dont make great pets and sport dogs!

  2. #42
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    That's why we got skip.. OH is a stockie

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    Working line dogs cannot be compared to pet only breeds Kalacreek, you are bang on about needing to breed from true working lines to get good working lines, they are also far fitter than the average pet breed, a crippled working line goes nowhere, only the fittest get bred so of course your dogs are showing the benifits of such breeding
    You know I believe that only the fittest and best should get bred from pet breeds as well. Unfortunately there are a lot of greedy breeders out there who dont give a hoot about selecting their fittest and best. One of my showbred ACDS had ED and her breeder has both her sisters in the breeding program pumping out more potentialy dysplastic dogs, of which I know several.

    There are great ethical breeders out there and I wish they were the only ones that would be supported.

  4. #44
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    It is a pity indeed,Kalacreek, it is partly the ANKC and breed clubs to blame.
    In some countries breeding is taken far more seriously than here,I have been told by a German couple that in Germany for instance, if you are breeding Rotties they must pass their Schutzhund classes and be hip and elbow scored, even then a breed warden comes to tell the breeder which pups he can register, and if the dogs a breeder has throw too many faulty pups a breed warden comes to the kennel takes the offending dog and brings it back desexed.

    In other Scandinavian countries faults must be reported and I think they go on a data base with the registry, also in some places popular sires cannot be used more than a given number of times per year.Also once taken hip and elbow x rays must be sent in for scoring and the scores reported to the registry,vets get fined for not doing so, (that must be a GVT law not just a breed club or registry rule) here you can just put them away and keep quiet if you get a bad result and so choose, and some do just that.

    Here it has been open slather for too long and that does make it very hard for the dedicated breeders who do try their best to breed good healthy dogs.

  5. #45
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    Yes I have heard that is indeed the case in countries like Germany.

    In the USA they have the OFA database where you can register your dog and its pedigree if your purebred dog has one of the dysplasias. That can be done independently of the breeder and open to the public to look through. Here there is no recourse. Several of us made a complaint about our related dyspalstic dogs to the ANKC and all they did was to write a letter to the breeder noting the complaint and that was it. The breeding pairings that produced the dysplastic dogs are still being used.

    Recently the ANKC did pass a rule that all Golden Retrievers I think it was had to be elbow scored before being bred because of the numbers of complaints, but any changes are very slow.

    I certainly feel for the dedicated breeders. They spend lots of time and money and support their puppy buyers while others just pump out the puppies and bank the dollars and walk away from any fallout.

    One of my working breeders did a pairing that we all agreed was going to be fantastic, great lines, great health, no evidence in full work of any problems etc but produced 3 mildly hip dysplastic pups in the litter of which mine was one. The breeder was terribly upset, refunded the purchase price, contacted all the puppy buyers from that litter, arranged for x-rays etc.. We believe the problems most liked stemmed from an imported UK dog from albeit very successful trialing lines. Being an ethical breeder is hard work!
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 10-22-2010 at 09:24 AM.

  6. #46
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    We've done a couple of sheep herding lessons. They're a lot of fun and Frosty is STUFFED by the end of it.

    If she is good at it, I might try my luck on my cousin's sheep... when they're still shaggy - before shearing. And we'd need fantastic recall then too.

    But I didn't get her with herding in mind. I did have agility in mind - just for fun.

    PS she is quite good at rounding up and fetching other people's dogs when required.

  7. #47
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    Yes my ACDS love agility and are very athletic. I love competing with them, they are such characters.

    The older one is handy in the yards on sheep in a fun sort of way and I sometimes take her with me because she enjoys it. My youngster is far too hard and full on. She will bite and bite hard and will chase, so I keep her away from livestock.

    My showbred BC learnt all the flanking commands in the roundyard but when it came to paddock work she has no force and the sheep laugh at her. The sheep see me approaching with my working bred BC and they know it is game over. Sheep are pretty smart too at times LOL

    I think one of the big differences between working breds and others is that they really dont need to be taught what should come naturally. They should have a natural wide deep cast, they should automatically understand where the point of balance is and they should have a calm steady temperament.

    My kelpie has a very straight cast, which I am having to work on deepening, so technically she is not a dog that should be bred from although she is actually a nice worker.

    Why not try Frosty on sheep, if it is something you both enjoy, you actually never know what talent is lurking unless you try.

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