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Thread: Thoughts from Breeders on Certain Crossbreeds?

  1. #21

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    Thanks for your informative answer I have a lot to learn when it comes to breeding, luckily I am never going to breed mine and both are getting desexed so I don't have to worry about it too much, but I like to be well informed.

    So since all breeds originated from crossbreeds for certain conditions/types of work, do you see the need for careful selective crossbreeding in the future for other types of work? Or do you think the current breeds should be it? Do you believe there are any breeds that are fast dying out, or than shouldn't be bred in the first place?

    As you can see, I am nosy LOL

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back2Basics View Post
    Thanks for your informative answer I have a lot to learn when it comes to breeding, luckily I am never going to breed mine and both are getting desexed so I don't have to worry about it too much, but I like to be well informed.

    So since all breeds originated from crossbreeds for certain conditions/types of work, do you see the need for careful selective crossbreeding in the future for other types of work? Or do you think the current breeds should be it? Do you believe there are any breeds that are fast dying out, or than shouldn't be bred in the first place?

    As you can see, I am nosy LOL
    I think yes...but only if there isn't a breed already to do whatever job we are thinking about IYKWIM OR certain breeds have been damaged to an irreparable state by irresponsible breeders.

  3. #23
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    Well to be honest, vast majority of today's registered breeds were created by crossing two or more other breeds to get another new breed. So, honestly, I do not see anything bad in creating a new breed IF it's done properly. This means no experiment BYBs, no playing blindfolded etc... Done properly meaning thoroughly research genetic issues pros and cons, picking the best of the best, and of course, not culling in a process. But unfortunatelly as it is nor regulated by law, it's open to everyone so for that reason I kind of disagree with it.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back2Basics View Post
    Do you believe there are any breeds that are fast dying out, or than shouldn't be bred in the first place?
    I do believe some breeds should not be bread any longer because people created freaks of nature whose bodies can't even function properly (unable to naturally mate or give birth, unable to breath...) No offence. In their cases I even would breed to another breed to possibly correct, but it is again up to professionals and genetics.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    Well to be honest, vast majority of today's registered breeds were created by crossing two or more other breeds to get another new breed. So, honestly, I do not see anything bad in creating a new breed IF it's done properly. This means no experiment BYBs, no playing blindfolded etc... Done properly meaning thoroughly research genetic issues pros and cons, picking the best of the best, and of course, not culling in a process. But unfortunatelly as it is nor regulated by law, it's open to everyone so for that reason I kind of disagree with it.
    I agree with this!

  6. #26

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    Apologies in advance, am going to waffle on with a long one here.

    I think there is always an opening for new breeds. And old ones with problems? Well I'm a firm believer in the idea that if people breed bad attributes into a breed they can breed them back out. Sometimes that does involve the introduction of outside blood and sometimes just careful use of old/unaffected bloodlines or individuals showing the attributes that you now want.

    Prime example for improvment, Merino sheep. Thre has been so much welfare controversy about the mulesing operation done on these sheep due to the heavy wool they carry on their breech which predisposes them to flystrike. There has been comment that the breed should be discontinued etc etc. But a few forward seeing breeders years ago started selecting breeding stock for less wool on breeches. So there are some lovely bloodlines appearing that are less prone to the same health problems. It's not a quick fix, and it may be heartbreaking to lose animals from a breeding program if they are outstanding in every other way except for carrying too much wool on their back end, but people need to be tough on themselves and stay true to their aims and standard.

    And new breeds, of course. But the whole picture and plan has to be there, that is the difference with the DD craze.

    I've used this example before but it's one I know . But have a look at Silken Windhounds:

    For a long time there has been no breed that fills the role of a smaller, yet coated sighthound. Size is important to many people, big dogs are difficult for many people to manage etc. And coats can be a great asset as well, dogs living in colder climates, in rougher terrain etc. There is a long history of longer or rougher coated Whippet crosses being used for hunting and coursing, yet a distinct breed was never created.

    So in the early 1990s the Silken Windhound began to emerge, from a start during the '80s. It is commonly believed to be a cross of Whippet and Borzoi, but as with most breeds, to get the perfect mix, judicious use of other blood has been involved. Most importantly, Shetland Sheepdog way back at the start.

    But they have the added bonus of DNA mapping to assist them with creating their own breed. And it is a very slow process due to the very few numbers of pups that come out looking the way they are wanted. They are really getting some lovely standard types now, and less wide variation. Windhounds are used as racing and coursing dogs, as well as companions. They are on their way towards worldwide recognition.

    Many of our beloved breeds have something unusual in their distant heritage that makes them what we love. Without people daring to throw something into the mix with a dream in mind these breeds wouldn't be around.

    How many people know that the Rough Collie (Lassie ) has Borzoi in it's ancestry? Queen Victoria added Borzoi to working collies to add a few attributes things that she thought would improve them. The dedicated Collie people were disgusted. But Rough Collies are beautiful, healthy and still can perform their function, despite a cross to something completely different over a century ago. Then they themselves have gone on to influence other breeds, Shelties, Aussie Shepherds etc...

  7. #27
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    I think it needs to be realized too that many of the breeds created to do certain jobs cannot do those jobs so well any more, you will almost never see any pure breed of dog being used to catch pigs, yet a few of our pure breeds used to catch wild boar way back when, now most of them cannot do as well as the crossbred dogs that are so widely used, and are so widely used because they do the job better.

    If you go to a large sheep or cattle property and look at proper working dogs, almost always, they will barely resemble the specimens of the same type or breeds you might see at a show, most are not even pure bred, again because they do the job better.

    Our desire to improve has not always led to real improvement in so many breeds that at some time it may be necessary to consider bringing in new blood to help narrowing gene pools, it should not be done by BYB people unless they do what tests can be done on parents first, you would have to test pure bred dogs because as yet there are very few, if any, DNA tests for cross bred dogs so it is not possible to DNA test once you have started crossing.

    Mind you if no BYB should breed without testing, no litter from untested ANKC registered dogs should be registered either, at this time too many are left to do tests or not as they please, this is not helping dog breeds in general. nor the image of the pure breed breeder

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    If you go to a large sheep or cattle property and look at proper working dogs, almost always, they will barely resemble the specimens of the same type or breeds you might see at a show, most are not even pure bred, again because they do the job better.
    It's because some breed really do have working lines and show lines. Very few people breed for both temperament and looks. Also, so many breed characteristics have been suppressed due to different legislations etc. in term of character.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  9. #29
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    Thank you for that, Fedra, true no doubt to some extent, but is it right when dogs can no longer do what the breed was intended for as well as some crossed dog can do, to say we are 'improving' that breed.

    I do think we need to take a good look at what we are endorsing as ANKC members.
    In other countries such as Germany for instance, your dog, if a guard breed like Rottie (for instance) must pass Sch. either one or two, forget which,before you can register pups, here that would not be possible, it is against rules for dogs to do schutchund.

    As for sheep herding breeds there is no laws against show lines of these doing as they are meant to do, show lines, but beautiful as they may be they are often are somewhat confused at being introduced to a sheep.
    To breed toward improvement ought to mean just that in all breeds.

  10. #30

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    It's my belief that a show dog should look like it could still do the job it was bred for.

    Some of the Great Danes you see in the ring look nice sure, but they are wrong. They need to have a "look of dash and daring" meaning being able to go anywhere and do anything, these days a lot of people are breeding more elegant looking dogs, or big course heavy things. There needs to be a balance.

    I can't comment on working dogs though. Have never owned them.

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