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Thread: Saw an In-breed Maltese Today.

  1. #1

    Default Saw an In-breed Maltese Today.

    This guy in my neighbourhood has 7 maltese. 4 of the 7 are pure bred maltese. One of the pure-bred maltese females had sex with her own son (who's father was also a pure-bred maltese) She had 1 pup, and I will tell you now this pup shares almost no resemblance of a maltese. It's not missing any eyes or legs but holy mother of god is it ugly. I've read stories about in-breeding being "okay" in the dog-world. But what I saw today --- I am pretty sure it's not okay lol.

    edit: by the way the pup is over a year old now, it's not a new born, it's a very awkward looking maltese indeed. Even all of his maltese-crosses have all maltese traits, the crosses still look 90% maltese.
    Last edited by Lillypilly; 07-20-2010 at 10:53 PM.

  2. #2
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    In-breeding is a very useful tool. Primarily because it will bring to the surface any faults that are in the lines.

    I did yesterday type out a very lengthy post on the benefits, do's and don'ts on in-breeding but the minute I pushed the submit button my post and the thread disappeared. I'm not prepared to do that again. But suffice to say I would not breed either of the dogs again to ANY dog.

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    Like MAC said...line and/or in breeding can be beneficial in breeding programs.

    In-breeding could be mating father and daughter...half-brother and half-sister...brother and sister...mother and son etc. When in-breeding...it can most definitely intesify weak points as well as strong points in the selected dogs involved. I am sure reputable breeders use this option with great care.

    For example...when the Rottweiler almost became extinct...legend says there was 1 female left in 1905. She was used to produce puppies and to save the breed. In-breeding is often used and needed when a species are becoming extinct.

    Line breeding is more about mating dogs with common ancestors and producing puppies from certain lines like....granddaughter to grandsire...uncle to niece etc. Lets use the Rottweiler as an example. You know certain lines produce healthy hip dysplasia free dogs. You also know these lines have sound temperament dogs. You will then of course want to use those lines to try and minimise dysplasia issues and temperament issues. That might be achieved by line breeding those strong lines.

    I think I got this one right...please correct me if I am wrong
    Last edited by Cleasanta; 07-21-2010 at 08:00 AM.

  4. #4

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    i see nothing wrong with it - done by people who know what they are doing. I know a lot of grandfather/granddaughter matings that have turned out amazing, Atlas has this in his lines (bugger if i can remember who was mated to who, i would have to get his papers... and that takes too much work LOL )

    It is the people who have no idea what they are doing that end up with problems

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    Yes that's the important part - knowing what you are doing. And also knowing the dogs in the lines. Knowing when to stop.

    The idea is not to bring out faults (though it will if they are there) the idea is that you believe that you have perfect specimens and want to duplicate that type.

    As to temperament. We need to stop blaming temperament on in-breeding and look at how the dogs are raised instead. I'm not talking about instinctive traits I'm talking about fear of noises, people, fear aggression, was the dog raised around children etc, they are things breeders & puppy owners can influence.

  6. #6

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    I have a fear aggressive dog, that goes back to before I got her, had I known, i never would have taken her (she sees another dog and wants to kill it, after talking to a few behaviorists about her, we have all agreed it is fear aggression coming from her critical period)

    Saying that, when she is not around dogs, she is rock solid, (ok, i lie, she is scared of scooters and balloons and new tiles...)

    But she is the reason i will never get a pup that is older than 9 weeks, i want the dog with me to do the socilaisation that is needed (and next time it will be around balloons.. and scooters... and tiles... LOL )

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  7. #7

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    I also know most of Atlas's family, am in regular contact with a few of them, and they all also have rock solid temps, At is probably the worst, he can be a grumpy dog from time to time, but every other dog is great.

    In breeding/line breeding is not the end of the world and many breeders do it with no problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Yes that's the important part - knowing what you are doing. And also knowing the dogs in the lines. Knowing when to stop.

    The idea is not to bring out faults (though it will if they are there) the idea is that you believe that you have perfect specimens and want to duplicate that type.

    As to temperament. We need to stop blaming temperament on in-breeding and look at how the dogs are raised instead. I'm not talking about instinctive traits I'm talking about fear of noises, people, fear aggression, was the dog raised around children etc, they are things breeders & puppy owners can influence.
    I 100% agree! Although...some temperament traits are undesirable in lets say the Rottweiler and those traits can be passed down through the lines. From a Breed Survey point of view...a Rottweiler must be rock solid, dependable, fearless etc. If the breeding lines consist of skiddish dogs you wouldn't expect to get rock solid dogs.

    I most definitely agree that a fair amount of phobias etc are human induced...lack of socialisation...lack of interactions...empowering unstable behaviours etc.

    I also agree that in-breeding is not the culprit to all temperament issues.

    In-breeding should always be done with great care and like I said...I am sure reputable responsible breeders do just that.

  9. #9
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    Line breeding is seen in almost every commonly kept pet. There's nothing wrong with it. It's only when the person doing it doesn't know when to outcross that problems start. Generally the limit for the number of direct crossing is smaller in larger mammals (eg, cats and dogs). Snakes and fish can be inbred for a much longer time without any problems.

    I know someone who breeds mice for reptile food, and he's been inbreeding them for almost 20 generations now. There have been no complications or anything to suggest he should stop now.

  10. #10

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    Anyone doubting inbreeding should look at the Arabian Horse. It has been inbred for thousands of years. Yet the breed is regarded as strong and healthy, and so much so that the breed has been used to improve or create almost every other horse breed in the world.

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