View Poll Results: Should we follow Kiwis and give a tail docking a green light ?

Voters
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  • Yes but must be carried out by trained staff before the animals were four days old

    4 12.50%
  • Yes but must be carried out by vets and under the anaesthesia only

    1 3.13%
  • No

    27 84.38%
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Thread: Tail Docking Ban

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    sydney
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    12

    Default Tail Docking Ban

    Hi guys

    My 15 year old Miniature Schnauzer was truly amazing. Although having passed away recently, he was truly loyal and smart and protective all the way to the end. A very smart dog, he would respond to just a look from me, and know what I wanted him to do. And talk about a fearless family protector ... he would take on any animal or person if he was protecting our family. From German Shepherds to possums to an unwelcome burglar ... he was there ... standing his ground. A truly remarkable little dog that had the heart of a lion!

    I would like to buy a standard schnauzer but unfortunately this (and some other) beautiful breed lost the character since the ban on tail docking was introduced here in Australia. I do not agree that tail docking is cruelty to animals as long as this is done properly under the anaesthesia and by qualified person / veterinarian. I am registered nurse and I can say that this ban is nonsense. Based on this assumption one can argue that we should ban the cosmetic surgery as a cruelty to human beings?

    I was informed that tail docking ban is recently lifted in New Zealand. New Zealand breeders win over Tail Docking Ban

    In context of this information I am wondering would it be possible to buy and import schnauzer puppy with docked tail from New Zealand. Any information & suggestion in regards to the quarantine procedure are more than welcomed.


    Kind regards,


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sydney
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    Default

    What on earth do you mean, "lost character"? A tail is a tail. A tail does not make the dog. I don't understand why you believe the fact your Schnauzer's lack of a tail made him fearless and an amazing dog, etc. Even if he HAD the tail, he'd be the same.

    I, too, am a vet nurse and I personally think tail-docking is barbaric. As for the argument that it's no different to cosmetic surgery in humans, we have the ability to make a CHOICE that we want to do it. Dogs obviously can't, so humans make the decision for them?

    I own two dogs of the a breed that is traditionally docked, one who was born before the law came through and one after. It really makes zero difference. Docking is in the same league as cropping ears -- it is unnecessary. The animal is the one that has to go through the healing process where as much as a brush against newly cropped ears can be agonising.


    like a rolling thunder chasing the wind...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Near Newcastle, NSW
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    4,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorry View Post
    Hi guys

    My 15 year old Miniature Schnauzer was truly amazing. Although having passed away recently, he was truly loyal and smart and protective all the way to the end. A very smart dog, he would respond to just a look from me, and know what I wanted him to do. And talk about a fearless family protector ... he would take on any animal or person if he was protecting our family. From German Shepherds to possums to an unwelcome burglar ... he was there ... standing his ground. A truly remarkable little dog that had the heart of a lion!

    I would like to buy a standard schnauzer but unfortunately this (and some other) beautiful breed lost the character since the ban on tail docking was introduced here in Australia. I do not agree that tail docking is cruelty to animals as long as this is done properly under the anaesthesia and by qualified person / veterinarian. I am registered nurse and I can say that this ban is nonsense. Based on this assumption one can argue that we should ban the cosmetic surgery as a cruelty to human beings?

    I was informed that tail docking ban is recently lifted in New Zealand. New Zealand breeders win over Tail Docking Ban

    In context of this information I am wondering would it be possible to buy and import schnauzer puppy with docked tail from New Zealand. Any information & suggestion in regards to the quarantine procedure are more than welcomed.


    Kind regards,

    Do you think he would have been any different with a tail?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Posts
    808

    Default

    Hi Gorry,

    Another schnauzer lover. Great! I have mini sch myself. Sorry I don't know much about your question but your opinion on docked tail makes me sad. Why do we dock a tail because of look? Now I look at photos of schnauzers with docked tail or cropped ears and i can't help thinking they don't look nice as much.

    There are also a lot of advantage having breeder close by. You can ask a lot of questions on the dog. You are buying s. sch which is again different from mini sch, so i assume you want to ask some questions? Recently i met a couple with two s schnauzer and the way they get help from the breeder is amazing. They even showed them how to strip etc. I was so envious as mine is in Mudge.

    I understand some people like tail docked but........why...... Besides think about so many different ways of looks you can clip the tail and ......what you will miss out. ;-)

    Hachna
    I love cooking but I love eating even more.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    sydney
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    Default Tail docking ban lifted in New Zealand July 2010

    I am not here to give a talk about humanity or ethics and please don't give me a lecture on the inhumanity of tail docking. I love animals.

    Many people who oppose tail docking do so on the grounds that the docking process is likely to cause acute pain. I agree that any amputation without an anaesthetic is cruel to humans and animals unless the procedure saves the life. I appreciate your opinion however there is no much scientific evidence that the tail docking under the anaesthesia is detrimental to animal health. Docking is legal and very common in many other developed countries, such as the USA and obviously New Zealand.

    I am sure that you are aware that there is overwhelming evidence that Tail Docking Significantly Reduces Risk of Tail Injuries in Dogs. Here is the link from the recent Journal of Veterinary Medicine (July 2010)

    Tail Docking Significantly Reduces Risk of Tail Injuries in Dogs

    Tail Docking

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/agricultur...ectid=10651072


    Any information & suggestion about importing a dog from New Zealand ?


    Cheers,

    Gorry
    Last edited by Gorry; 07-17-2010 at 06:21 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Victoria
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    I'm a nurse aswell and I can only think of four reasons a dog might have a docked tail. To fit breed standard, to avoid damage, for hygeine purposes and cosmetic reasons.
    In the eyes of our clinic, its 'unjustified mutilation', and majority of the time is done for cosmetic purposes that has no benefit on the dog. Especially the average family pet.
    Are you planning on breeding/showing your Schnauzer? Are you planning on hunting with your Schnauzer? Are you incapable of providing general hygiene for your Schnauzer? If you answered no to these questions, then why are you so set on buying a dog without a tail?
    As you would know, the Miniature Schnauzer has a natural occuring bobtail, the Standard does not. If you are craving a tailess Schnauzer, stick to the miniature
    If you're gonna dock the tail, why not crop the ears too?
    Education not Legislation

  7. #7

    Default

    I am pro tail docking - and will not get into a debate about it

    I believe if you import a dog that has been docked, there is no problem - but do not know about the showing side of it

    good luck with what you do

    www.cinspets.com.au
    I am doing Relay For Life in 2011, please contact me to make a donation

  8. #8
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    Aug 2008
    Location
    South Coast NSW
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorry View Post
    I am not here to give a talk about humanity or ethics and please don't give me a lecture on the inhumanity of tail docking. I love animals.


    Any information & suggestion about importing a dog from New Zealand ?


    Cheers,

    Gorry
    If you were not interested in our thoughts of tail docking why didn't you just ask your bold statement?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    sydney
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    Default

    Thank you kindly for the comprehensive answers. As I mentioned previously I did not want to go into argument over the tail docking. Regardless, I must say that certain breeds of dogs (Boxer, Doberman, Weimarener or Rottweiler) with undocked tail looks like a human with the third leg.

    From the information available on Australian Quarantine web site it looks like that importing a dog from NZ is pretty much the same as shipping a dog from Western Australia or Queensland and do not require an import permit or Australian quarantine period.

    I am sure that many hypocrites concerned about tail docking will continue to sink their teeth into the barbequed lamb tails or juicy horse steak.

    Good night
    Last edited by Gorry; 07-17-2010 at 08:01 PM.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorry View Post
    Thank you kindly for the comprehensive answers. As I mentioned previously I did not want to go into argument over the tail docking. Regardless, I must say that certain breeds of dogs (Boxer, Doberman, Weimarener or Rottweiler) with undocked tail looks like a human with the third leg.

    From the information available on Australian Quarantine web site it looks like that importing a dog from NZ is pretty much the same as shipping a dog from Western Australia or Queensland and do not require an import permit or Australian quarantine period.

    I am sure that many hypocrites concerned about tail docking will continue to sink their teeth into the barbequed lamb tails or juicy horse steak.

    Good night
    Gorry

    If you didn't want to get into an argument about tail docking, why did you post a poll on a FORUM.

    This place is all about expressing opinions (preferably legal ones).

    When a human has a part amputated - they often report problems with a ghost limb, ie they still feel pain, itches and other sensations coming from the missing limb.

    So why inflict that for no reason on an animal that can't consent.

    I've never eaten bbq lamb tail or horse steak - can't say I plan to. I have seen fly blown sheep, and I'm pretty sure the sheep would prefer to lose a tail than deal with fly strike.

    You could get a dog that had been cosmetically altered from NZ but I doubt you'd be allowed to enter it in a show and, as you can see by the poll results, you will be given a hard time every time you take your dog out in public, by most dog owners who think it is an unnecessary procedure.

    My dog would fall over and crash if she didn't have a tail, she uses it for balance and turns. And sometimes for thinking. Tails are important in dog to dog communication too. If you take away a dog's ability to signal with tail, you increase its chances of being mistaken for prey and reduce its ability to avoid fights.

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