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Thread: Where Do You Draw the Line?

  1. #1
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    Default Where Do You Draw the Line?

    >>I AM NOT OPENING THIS UP TO A SH!TFIGHT.<<

    Ok.
    I know a lot of people here see a clean line.
    Reg.purebred breeders are real breeders.
    Cross bred or non reg. breeders are not real breeders and must be puppy farmers.
    Reg. breeders = good
    non-reg. = bad

    I thought I might put something forward to the more open minded of you.
    I am a reg. breeder. My dogs are reg. I value everything that stands for and believe that there is a code all breeders should live by.
    BUT the thing is, I know some god aweful reg. breeders who may as well be puppy farmers for all they care about their animals. They are horrid people and their animals are not healthy genetically, physically or mentally. AND some of these people sell entire litters for rediculse amounts of money because they can win in the ring, because they have the BIG names. I dont care how many points they have won if their dogs are unhealthy! Those people make me more sick than your average byb because THEY KNOW BETTER!!

    So... just because they are reg. does not mean a hell of a lot to me.

    Now I turn my views toward BYB or non-reg. breeders.
    I know a breeder of labradoodles, YES I say that is their breed. This breeder has been breeding for about 20 years, with imported, bred-true lines. EVERYTHING is tested, back more generations than most reg. lines go. Her dogs are some of the most healthy dogs I have seen both mental and physical. They are lovely dogs, she is a lovely person, and she only breeds for assistance dogs. One is even a guide dog! The ONLY reason she is not reg is because they are not recognised as a breed in Australia. I have no problem calling her a breeder. If I needed one of her dogs for the programe, I would get one.
    But as we all know there are plenty of people out there who range from just breeding their pet, to breeding so called "designer dogs" who are in it for the money, who do not care for their dogs like they should, who do not look after the puppies they produce. Some people who have rows upon rows of welping bitches in cages... Those people make me sick. I can not understand how they could do it.

    I guess what I am saying is that registration just means they can afford the dogs with papers not that they are good or decent. And just because someone doesnt have registration it does not mean that they are a horrid person. There are far too many discusting people on both sides, just as there are good people on both sides. IF they test and care for their dogs and the pups they produce, and IF they produce good tempered and healthy dogs, then I do not have a problem with them.

    Well that is where I draw the line... what about you?

    Please remember this is not open to a sh!tfight. If you have an oppinion, please let us know, but in the most polite way you can.

    Breeding, Showing, Training and general crazy making!!!
    If you seek understanding listen to the music, not the song.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I agree with all your points! Very eloquently put, Ashaari, thank you.

    To add my own 2 cents, unregistered breeders of Staffies or deliberate staffy crossbreeds are so irresponsible. An unpapered Staffy could classified as a pitbull if somebody reports it or a ranger sees it. Amstaffs, unfortunately, will be one of the next breeds added to the stupid BSL.


    like a rolling thunder chasing the wind...

  3. #3
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    Default

    Great post Ash.

    I think every individual person draws the line at what they themselves perceive to be right or wrong.

    Yep, lots of disgusting registered breeders out there. Lots of disgusting BYBs too. There is good and bad in everything unofrtunately. Those registered breeders out there who should know better (like you say) are the ones that make it so much harder for the excellent responsible breeders.

    Which is why I like to differentiate between registered breeders and reputable registered breeders - big difference IMHO.
    [CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post

    Which is why I like to differentiate between registered breeders and reputable registered breeders - big difference IMHO.
    That is an interesting way of putting it DA. Nice destinction!

    Breeding, Showing, Training and general crazy making!!!
    If you seek understanding listen to the music, not the song.

  5. #5
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    Quite simply put.

    A good registered breeder is devoted to their chosen breed or breeds, they are competitive in the show ring and have the trophies, ribbons, Challenge and BOB Certificates to prove it, they raise their puppies in the house for the first 3-4 weeks, they carry out all necessary health testing and have the certificates to prove it, they will let you meet the mother and if possible the father of the puppies and will introduce you to all the dogs in their house and kennels.

    They will ask a multitude of questions about you and why you have chosen this breed, they will tell you all the pros and cons, especially the cons about this breed, they will talk to you about de-sexing your puppy and may even have a contract regarding de-sexing. They will want to talk to you more than once or twice. They will offer life time support and will take the puppy/dog back at any age.

    I do not understand why the pet buying public would want to settle for anything else.

    They will fulfill every criteria of the Code of Ethics of their Affiliation.

    Anyone else should be de-sexing their dog/bitch.

    Anyone not interested in a purebred dog should be able to find a suitable dog in any of the overpopulated pounds and rescues.

    I'd like to say so much more but the computer always times out.

    Unless you are breeding a dog for work purposes I do not understand why a person wants to breed any unregistered dog. I do not know why a person is not interested in seeing how their dog stacks up against the competition, unless you tick all the boxes don't do it, unless the breeder you are thinking about buying from ticks all the boxes don't buy from them.

    I would no more buy a dog from someone who doesn't carry out the required health testing of their breed than I would from someone that never steps into a show ring. When I buy a dog I want the very best there is from all aspects.

    There are unethical people in all walks of life, but if you are serious about breeding dogs and serious about dogs why not become a registered breeder? Why not strive to tick all the boxes, give the pet buying public the best there is.

    A responsible, reputable person when seeking a dog should do their homework and only buy from a responsible, reputable registered breeder who fulfills all the criteria. I'm very proud of my wins in the ring, if they are not winning I couldn't care less how good their health and temperament is because that means my dogs don't fulfill all the criteria of a dog that should be bred from. Type, Temperament, Health - they are all important aspects of a dog.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 07-06-2010 at 10:03 AM.

  6. #6

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    I don't have a line at all, except perhaps distinguishing between out for profit only breeders, with little if any knowledge at all bout the breed itself, so many copy and paste websites abound.

    I would like to know what benifits being registered have though, as far as I can see it is only offering benifits for those involved with show or trialing as membership bodies offer nothing else.

    I personly know 2 non-registered breeders of a breed that far exceed in knowledge and experience and health and understanding than a alot of registered counterparts in the same breed I have been in contact with.

    I also know of many registered breeders that far exceed in general animal husbandry knowledge compared to the proliferation of non registered breeders without a dogs interest ie;(BYB).

    But I can only put this down to having that passion for life long dog knowledge instead of seeing dogs as a money spinner.

    So I guess my line is; if they dont know a thing, which ever camp they reside, it's probably best to see someone else that does, which ever camp they reside.
    If you find yourself going through hell; Don't stay. Just keep on going.
    Beau.

  7. #7
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    For me showing my dogs and being competitive whilst doing so means that my dogs fulfill at least the standard.

    When I breed it's because I have interest in obtaining another dog primarily for myself, not for profit, not because I think puppies are cute and not because some one down the road would like one.

    If I wasn't to enter shows, if I wasn't to travel around the country with them if I wasn't to have them scrutinised by overseas judges and other breeders then IMO I'm not a breeders bootlace.

    I will not know when the next best thing to our breed has arrived, I will not be able to scrutinise other breeders and source stud dogs or bitches from different lines.

    In fact I would have my head buried in my own kennel, blind to it's faults.

    There has to be some governing body that overlooks the breeding of dogs, yes it could be better, but it's a start. Yes some of the people hiding behind the word registered need to be kicked out but if the general pet buying public do their homework & didn't buy from them they might eventually be forced out, if the pet buying public were prepared to pay more for good quality, if vets didn't charge like wounded bulls for health testing things would also be better.

    If I was to breed from two good specimens, that just stayed at home, didn't enter a ring then I'd make a profit, but I wouldn't be keeping my eye in, I wouldn't be seeing how my next generation shapes up against the rest of my breed so I could in fact very quickly breed second rate dogs. So therefore I am a registered breeder who is prepared to put my dogs against others.

    I have learnt so much by being a registered breeder, I have attended lectures, training sessions, breed information nights, genetics lecturers, etc etc because as a member I am informed when Dogs NSW hold lectures nights. I have used their services for training clients in relation to dog noise pollution, found information regarding obedience clubs in my area etc etc.

    So when you are involved in all aspects of the "dog world" being registered is important.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 07-06-2010 at 02:12 PM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Quite simply put.

    A good registered breeder is devoted to their chosen breed or breeds, they are competitive in the show ring and have the trophies, ribbons, Challenge and BOB Certificates to prove it, they raise their puppies in the house for the first 3-4 weeks, they carry out all necessary health testing and have the certificates to prove it, they will let you meet the mother and if possible the father of the puppies and will introduce you to all the dogs in their house and kennels.

    They will ask a multitude of questions about you and why you have chosen this breed, they will tell you all the pros and cons, especially the cons about this breed, they will talk to you about de-sexing your puppy and may even have a contract regarding de-sexing. They will want to talk to you more than once or twice. They will offer life time support and will take the puppy/dog back at any age.

    I do not understand why the pet buying public would want to settle for anything else.
    The pet buying public generally aren't aware of all the things they should be asking about. I did a LOT of research prior to getting my pup and I honestly thought I was doing the right thing by going to a Registered Breeder. At the time my belief was that a breeder who is recommended by a state club is reputable. I asked about all the usual things like hip/elbow scores, temperament, etc but there are so many other things that I just didn't know. Now I know, but it took a bad experience for me to learn. The key is educating the public.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post

    A responsible, reputable person when seeking a dog should do their homework and only buy from a responsible, reputable registered breeder who fulfills all the criteria. I'm very proud of my wins in the ring, if they are not winning I couldn't care less how good their health and temperament is because that means my dogs don't fulfill all the criteria of a dog that should be bred from. Type, Temperament, Health - they are all important aspects of a dog.
    I assume you'd make an exception for rescues MAC?

  10. #10
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    And I think we all need to understand that when all is said and done regardless of how many health checks and screening and scores that are taken things can still go wrong.

    Breeding dogs can be a lucky dip, that is why I favour to a certain extent in-breeding, but there is a whole other story in that and much more to it than most people care to understand.

    Yes Meegs as I wrote in a post above anyone not interested in a purebred dog should be able to find a suitable dog in the overpopulated pounds and rescues. This sadly includes many many puppies. As always it is a lucky dip, just because a dog is not purebred doesn't mean it doesn't come with it's own set of problems, it may even come with double the problems. But in most cases the breeder is unknown and if they were what have they got to loose.

    If it were found that I had bred inferior dogs, and because I show them, I have a lot to loose.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 07-06-2010 at 03:13 PM.

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