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Thread: Beaglier

  1. #41
    Join Date
    May 2009


    Harley, I own two dogs. A Kelpie X Border Collie and a Jack Russell X Maltese.
    The Jack Russell X was bought for me when I was 10 from a pet shop. I have no doubt he was from a puppy mill now. He has bowed legs. And Jack Russell X Maltese? Worst breed combination of all time.
    When I think about it, im so lucky he has got to age 11(12 next week) and had no genetic disorders come up. The Kelpie X is from a shelter, and at age 8, she also hasn't had any genetic disorders emerge.
    But you know what, its incredibly lucky.
    Thats all it is, luck. You may get everything you want in a breed, but chances are you wont. If your mixed breeds are everything you want, then you are lucky, pure and simple.

    People that go to the effort of health and temperament testing, arn't the type of people to go and X breed...
    Education not Legislation

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by Harley10 View Post
    Hi Hyacinth,

    Firstly, i dont think it is fair to automatically assume that because you have a mixed `breed' you are supporting puppy mills (which we definetly dont). On the contrary research has found that there are many `pure bred' puppies coming out of these mills and being sold as `breed' dogs.

    Ultimately, th responsibility always comes back to the buyer - do your research - where are the puppies coming from, what is the quality of life of the parents, their living enviroment, how many litters has the dame had? - these are questions you need to ask of any breeder- pure or mixed- whether they are recognised or your backyard mum & dad.

    As for understanding the guarantee, and as stated before, I agree with you here, there is no guarantee in any breeding of puppies - mixed or pure - ask any top breeder - its genetics and the game of probability.

    Basically, what i am trying to say is that we have found that this mix/breed is one that ticks the boxes for what we wanted in a dog - they are part of our family and the joy we have had from our two we have tried to share with others.

    (incase anyone is wondering - no we are not regular breeders as such - we always intended to let our girl have one litter (and she is has been a wonderful loving mum) and only gave her another litter -in due time, after the positive feedback we recieved from the first lot - you know - share the love!!

    "Sad but true, we can never control how or why people do what they do"
    ... I hardly think breeding is a game... Breeding is the creation of new life, you shouldn't take it as a game.

    Also, what happens if, later on , you get a call from a person who gave you 'positive feedback' on your mix puppies, saying they have a serious genetic disease? Are you going to personally call every person who bought one of your puppies, and explain what has happened to one of your dogs pups, and explain that it will probably happen to their dog? Are you going to offer support to the people who will lose their beloved dog, and a fair sum of money on vet bills? Are you going to offer a refund, or to pay for the vet bills? ...I think not.
    More importantly, are you going to desex your dog, so that no more puppies that could potentially have this disease are created?

    Sharing the love, my arse.

  3. #43

    Default A game it is Not!


    Ok, so maybe `game' was not the correct word to use - but I think you know what I meant - pure and simple mathematics (is that a better word?)

    Anyway, as for your concept of `warranty and return policy' i think there is so much wrong with that idea that i better not go there!

    BTW, I/we have had many different breeds over the years as pets (German Shepherds, Chihuahua, Boxer, Dalmatians, Spaniels, poodles, JRs plus a number of mixes) and never did we consider complaining about any faults they had let alone asking for refunds... i guess we just saw them in a different light!! (my cars and computers on the other hand....!!! )

    Share the love if you wish... but if you dont, then dont!
    (lets leave your a... out of it for now!)

    "Sad but true, we can never control how or why people do what they do"

  4. #44


    Harley, can you tell me if you have a dog classified B rating for PRA, and breed it to a dog with a C rating of PRA what the puppies would be?
    Can you even tell me what PRA is?

    What is the hip scores for your breed... oh whoops sorry, mixes don't have an average... well can you tell me the average hip score rating for the 2 breeds you mix together?

    This is basic canine genetics and health and something every breeder should know.

  5. #45


    And have you made yourself familiar with the new genetic mapping taking place to source the inheritance and manifestation of Syringomyelia in Cavaliers? And whether that will impact on your breeding "plans"?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    Harley 10

    Breeding and genetics is not maths. It's not pure and simple either, and that would be one reason why simple people shouldn't be doing it.

    So if you have two registered pure bred dogs of the same particular breed, that are breed to a particular standard and the breeders have their dogs shown in dog breed competitions to measure the dogs against the breed standards, which include appearence and temperment, then the puppies will inherit 1/2 genes from each parent, and 100% the genes from that breed.

    If you have two dogs from different breeds - again you will get 1/2 the genes from each parent, and no guarantee which 1/2 - you can't guarantee - as the labradoodle websites promise falsely - an allergy free dog with friendly temperment.

    So if you were investing in a breeding lottery - would you rather have a 100 % chance of getting something that meets your expectations or a less than 50% chance? In fact a less than 25% chance of getting the qualities you want?

  7. #47

    Default for the love of our Beagliers!

    OK, so it seems we might have touched a few nerves....

    Crested_love, I could do the maths for you but it sounds like you might already know the answer... and btw our 2 are clear PRA (maybe we were lucky hey!)

    and to Nattylou, at least you are aware as to why we dont have Cavaliers...
    As for plans - what plans - we have 2 Beagliers, both happy, healthy and loving life as part of our family!! (dont worry, we dont plan on taking away any of your breeders business!)

    PS not everyone who has had a litter of puppies is running a business or should treat it as such.

    "Sad but true, we can never control how or why people do what they do"

  8. #48


    But you have Cavalier genetics - don't you understand that? Untested Cav genetics by the sound of it. So anything and everything that can be present in Cavs can be present in your dogs. Crossing them doesn't magically eradicate genetic conditions! It really just expands your options for them.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2010


    Crested, What is PRA?

    A few nerves? Yeah, on a forum where the majority of people despise and definitely do not condone backyard breeding and puppy mills, yeah, I would say you've hit a few nerves.
    I don't see how you could plan on taking any breeders business, when any reputable breeder wouldn't be breeding a 'breed' that doesn't exist...

    PS, you don't have two Beagliers, you have two Beagle/Cavalier crosses.

  10. #50


    Seeing as how Harley never answered my questions I'm going to assume they don't know the answer.

    Boxerini - PRA is Progressive Retinal Atrophy. Basically if your dog has a C rating it means the dog WILL be blind in its later years (they are perfectly normal as youngsters and many people breed without knowing unless they test). It is a genetic disease that doesn't happen by chance like cancer, it can actually be guaranteed that your dog will not have it through careful breeding and testing.

    B rated dogs will not go blind, but it means that they carry the blindness gene. So putting that dog with a C rated dog is a big no-no.

    A rated dogs are completely clear, they do not carry the defective gene and essentially can be bred to anything and they puppies will not be blind (although may be carriers depending on the other dogs rating)

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