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Thread: The Difference Between....

  1. #61
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    Well see im kinda on two sides with that, I've confusd myself aswell
    I think that attacks will happen when provoked(eg. tail being pulled) but even when you say your dog is 100% trustworthy, things can still happen, as those articles showed. Like, they say they were family dogs etc. etc. but a child was still hurt and the dog was still pts, and a child can still get hurt, and a dog can still get pts when harrassed......
    .....if that makes sense
    Education not Legislation

  2. #62
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    I think i kind of understand what you're trying to say. I think there are a lot of ppl out there in this world who really shouldn't own dogs though IYKWIM.

  3. #63
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    For instance, when I was giving birth to my youngest son had you given me a knife I would have gladly cut my husband's penis off. No qualms about it. seriously, I think i would have done it.

    It would have been called an unprovoked attack by everyone else. I would have called it a provoked attack brought on by extrememe pain because i was out of my mind, your honour!

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    unregistered AmStaff = Pitt Bull
    AmStaff X = Pitt Bull
    Registered AmStaff = AmStaff

    If that makes any sense
    Misinformed. (unless you are talking from a legal perspective in Australia)

    The Amstaff is a breed from APBT's. Around the 1950's or so some APBT fanciers started to breed their dogs for color and conformation, eventually the Amstaff became a separate breed.

    The APBT come from the working Staffordshire Bull Terrier lines.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    Ok...my 2 cents worth.

    I trust Sumo and Ruby with MY children...they have been here since 8 weeks! I EXPECT them to be trustworthy with MY children...end of story! Eddie is a different kettle of fish. I don't know him...he doesn't really know us. We don't know what might "set him off" yet, so therefore...he is not trustworthy around our kids. That said...my youngest is 15, so they are not "young" kids. Nevertheless...it takes a split second for something to go wrong and it could be due to anything.

    Do I trust my dogs with other children...lets just say I don't trust other kids to not "push their buttons"...and therefore for my dogs to react in an undesirable manner.

    Do I trust my dogs with other dogs...I have to say no. I don't trust other dogs to not get in their face. Sumo is a goof ball and just wants to play, but I am sure if he was challenged by another dog...he would retaliate. Ruby is somewhat suspicious of other dogs. Eddie is just fine with other dogs...he just wants to hump them.


    Thankies Dorte.... for explaining it much better than i can


    We both are fortunate to have kids that understand the dynamics of a dog & respect them too... well both our kids treated each others dogs with respect etc & not once did either of our dogs have any reason to show aggression towards each others kids when we all visited each other. It was quiet the opposite, as you know both our dogs were more happy giving cuddles & licks than showing any aggression, bless them, they truly are sweet loving dogs.

  6. #66

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    Actually I must correct my earlier post, I believe that around the 50's or more possibly before the Amstaff become a recognized breed, not when they started to move away from working lines.
    I say this because you could probably trace almost every Amstaff back to Colbys Pincher, one of the most decorated APBT's ever and he was around in the late 1800's.

  7. #67
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    Wow, didn't this thread wander off.

    Shouldn't there be a separate thread for dogs and children?

    Back on topic for Shadow Staff...

    The only way you can find out if an Amstaff x is viewed as a restricted "pitbull" by your council, is to phone and ask them.

    I saw a quote on the web that outlined that in QLD that crosses of restricted breeds were also considered restricted (not to mention the breeder has broken the law by breeding with a "restricted" breed dog.

    The QLD legislation I found - only pointed people at the customs act for which breeds were restricted - but dogs can be declared restricted by council (dog rangers) if they act in a manner dangerous or (scary) threatening (to humans or other animals).

    Other states mention Pitbulls - as per the customs act - but it is not clearly defined - what is a pitbull in the legislation. I haven't found any web site that does so yet. Might be out there, I haven't found it. So if the owner says it is a pitbull (or pitbull cross), then the council ranger or policeman is likely to take that as an admission of ownership of a restricted breed.

    My (unqualified, unprofessional) recommendation - check with the council where the dog should be registered - what their definintion is - ie how they decide a dog is a pitbull.

    Never voluntarily call the dog a pitbull or pitbull cross or an Amstaff cross. Find a similar looking breed and use that if you must (eg bull arab). If you say "unknown breed" you leave it up the Council ranger to decide.

    Don't say "Staffordshire Bull Terrier x" (or Staffy x) either unless you have the papers. But SBT are in danger of being declared "restricted" hence the upset among SBT owners when unidentified or inaccurately identified dogs involved in attacks called "Staffies" or "Staffy x".

    Do make sure the dog is trained / encouraged to leave other dogs and people alone. Be aware that any dog that looks a bit like a pitbull or American Staffordshire (AMSTAFF) will likely cause fear if it approaches humans unsupervised and unintroduced. And "causing fear" is usually enough to get it declared "dangerous" and require all the same things as a "pitbull" eg always on lead, muzzled, desexed and living in a secure cage (from break ins as well as break outs).

    Visually American Staffordshire Terriers and Pitbulls look the same. The main difference is the breeding history and purpose. Staffordshire Bull Terriers - have shorter legs and usually smaller and stockier/broader - that's the most obvious visual difference. There are other differences between the breeds that are less visually obvious like breeding for calmer less aggressive temperments or the opposite. Hence the danger of accepting a dog from an unregistered breeder who may have been breeding fighting dogs.

    You might find these links helpful, or confusing. Note that each Australian State and Territory has slightly different rules and each council implements them differently and they're all different to O/S rules and implementations.

    Breed identification | Adelaide Animal Hospital
    Dog Owner's Guide Profile: The American Pit Bull Terrier
    American Pit Bull Terrier
    Is an American Staffordshire Terrier a "Pit Bull?" - Q&A

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Wow, didn't this thread wander off.




    Don't say "Staffordshire Bull Terrier x" (or Staffy x) either unless you have the papers. But SBT are in danger of being declared "restricted" hence the upset among SBT owners when unidentified or inaccurately identified dogs involved in attacks called "Staffies" or "Staffy x".

    Thank you Hy...

    Your words are very well said & i for one do get very upset when ever i hear my beloved breed's name being blatantly mis-used or tarnished.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clutch View Post
    Misinformed. (unless you are talking from a legal perspective in Australia)

    The Amstaff is a breed from APBT's. Around the 1950's or so some APBT fanciers started to breed their dogs for color and conformation, eventually the Amstaff became a separate breed.

    The APBT come from the working Staffordshire Bull Terrier lines.

    Actualy in 1936 a small group of gentleman decided to take the best of what was current and register them as the Amstaff as no Registry was interested in registering the dogs as 'Pit Bulls'.

    At no time has there been any other blood introduced ,without the Pit , no Amstaff.In fact in the 70's they opened the StudBooks to allow some fresh infusion of APBT blood.
    Though I will say that after 80 years of Amstaff breeding that they now have a distinct 'type'. But having dogs that breed conformingly litter after litter does not make them them a different breed.

    Back in the 1890's Bennet started the UKC as the AKC didn't want anything to do with the 'APBT', 10 years on and McCord ( a friend of Colby) started the ADBA , now the ADBA only registers APBT .
    Now fast forward to around 1936 and suddenly the AKC wants to join in as this dog known as the APBT is suddenly a very popular dog. So they conceded to registering them as Staffordshire Terriers. Fast forawrd again to the 1970's and American was added to it to differentiate it from the smaller,'little bricks' being bred in England .
    At the time of all these Registeries though,they were still primarily, the same dog under different recognised names..

    I have copied a little paragraph from a previous post of mine on this very subject I am trying not to burn dinner and still be on here

    I did put the link up earlier but will do it again;
    http://www.dogforum.com.au/general-d...v-pitbull.html
    GageDesign Pet Photography
    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  10. #70

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    I dont know of any working tight bred Colby lines anymore those dogs started the Amstaff and I feel that the line itself is now basically Amstaff. The UKC and AKC show judges have very different standards than the ADBA judges. I would say it would be near impossible to pick an Amstaff from an APBT in the UKC and AKC, whereas the ADBA dogs are easily recognizable and very few have cropped ears.
    Interestingly the dogs that were brought in to strengthen the Amstaff blood in the 70's were all game bred dogs, that in itself is strange to me.
    Although not always the case, the Amstaff is more of a shell, like a Ferrari with a Datsun motor (in no way am I being negative about Amstaffs or Datsuns).

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