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Thread: Surgical Alteration. To Do or Not to Do?

  1. #11
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    As a reg. breeder who also shows I would like to give my opinion.

    I recently turned away a person who wanted to buy one of my puppies because they didn't want to show, they just wanted to breed. Why you might ask; if you have no interest in seeing how your dog stacks up against the competition why breed in the first place??? Leave it to the people who have a passion for it.

    I only breed when I want something for myself.

    When I go to look at a dog I look at all aspects of what I'm getting, are the dogs friendly, good temp, true to character, can I see the parents or research them, do they have a good pedigree? Are their relatives competitive?

    Neither of the parents of this litter are champions, they are both young. But I expect that will change in a matter of months. If my dog/bitch was not competitive in the ring they would not be bred from, simple as that. Competing shows me where my dogs stand. If others have better dogs/bitches than me then let them do the breeding. The breed does not need substandard dogs out there. It's hard enough breeding from the best.

    On occasion I will keep dogs/bitches that haven't been the very best in the ring because they carry bloodlines that will benefit the breed, but I do so carefully.

    I am proud of those ribbons, sashes, crappy prizes and trophies, they signify hard bloody work, careful selective breeding etc. By striving so hard in the ring and in the whelping box pet owners also benefit.

    If you know your breed you will know the necessary questions to ask regarding genetic defects and diseases.

    I don't think there would be too many people out there willing to go to as much expense and heartache to produce puppies as reg. breeders do.

    Yes there are some terrible reg. breeders out there, but there are just as many terrible pet owners.

    Would I alter a dog to win in the ring - NO. We are not all the same. I am proud of my achieves, I like to share them with potential owners thinking that they may also be proud of the background of their puppy. It also justifies the price of my dogs, because the price reflects my hard work and ruthless breeding practice.

    I get tired of people saying temperament over type. Some of us look for both, they go hand in hand. Breed from the best and pet owners will be the winners.

  2. #12

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    Well said MAC. I think pet buyers need to look for a middle ground when buying from registered breeders. They need to talk to people who are going to talk to them about the dogs and not just the show results.

    On the other hand you don't necessarily want to talk to breeders who never show. Showing is putting your dogs out there and being proud of them.

    We need to be sure that a breeder does what they do because they love the breed, and they want it to continue as it is. Like any hobby it can only be regulated so far, and then individual ethics have to do the rest. Like so many things, if people were honest with themsleves as well as with others life would be much esier.

  3. #13
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    Even out of two Gr Ch. parents not all the puppies will be of the highest quality. So you've been sold a pet quality dog/bitch out of that litter.

    So what might you think the quality of that pet grade puppy be, if the parents of it were only pet quality?? A poor dog but with a lovely temperament.

    Even if I was buying at pet, I would be looking at everything the breeder had to offer. Health checks, ribbons, pedigree, meeting all the dogs in their kennel, going to shows and meeting other people with dogs from their prefix.

    And most of all I research the breeder, I've seen people put more thought into what coffee machine they are going to buy than the live animal they are about to spend the next 12+ years with.

    And people need to start looking at the environment that they bring that puppy up in. The brother of my setter is a nervous wreck, not because of the breeders stock but because the owner is a nervous wreck. She could turn any dog bad no matter how good the temperament of the parents.
    Last edited by mouseandchicken; 02-06-2010 at 08:18 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post

    I get tired of people saying temperament over type. Some of us look for both, they go hand in hand. Breed from the best and pet owners will be the winners.
    I agree...the type definitely MUST be there too in combination with temperament and health!

    Why breed with stock that is sub-standard in type? Honestly...you can not expect to get high standard pups from sub-standard parents. You might get lucky but it is a huge gamble...for the pups and the future owners sake!

    There are a lot of reg. breeders who do not care whether they spit out mediocre pups. The way I see it is this...puppies coming from me will carry MY prefix and I want to be able to be proud of what I have produced and stand by my decisions for choosing that particular Sire and Dam!!!
    Last edited by Cleasanta; 02-07-2010 at 08:40 AM.

  5. Default

    I think the broader picture needs to be taken into consideration... I have been breeding staffords for ten years, the majority of my females have been desexed, in fact I found myself in the situation where when my pups were stolen I had no females to continue on with at all... I got two of the stolen pups back and both are undershot...(the missing pup is the one I had planned to keep) Now this is the first time it's come up in my lines.. I made the decision to mate one of the girls... I picked a dog that I know has a strong mouth line... and so far all three of the pups seem to have good mouths... the two boys sold will be desexed and I have options here with my boy (for other reasons he won't be mated anyway) ... I am planning to show him, and have entered the Champ show, I enjoy showing, not for the winning but for the chance to be around others who have the same love of staffords...
    Temperament has always been the most important thing I take into consideration when planning a mating, I've bred one Champion, and have two other dogs that have gained some points... but unless they are shown every weekend the chances of gaining a title is very limited... at a quick count I have bred at least 7 dogs that have obedience titles behind them... that I am proud of....

    I have also had a litter with Cherry Eye, when I first started... after much research... I decided to continue with the line, and have not had one since... althou one pup 2nd generation has had one, it is minor surgery and that dog was desexed...

    Donna

    Like to add that all my dogs are DNA tested for both L2 and HC and all clear..
    Stafford Rescue Victoria
    0408 515 111

  6. #16
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    Everything must be sound and straight for me to breed. They may not be as "sweet" to look at as some of my other dogs but I will breed from them because they carry sound bloodlines. I don't breed from dogs with incorrect bite, incorrect gait.

    You can have two dogs/bitches one is a show stopper because they enjoy the experience the other not so. Naturally the one with more "spark" wins more, or the one with prettier markings, wins more. I will breed with the second dog if it has good bloodlines is sound and straight and can offer something that the other flashier dog cannot.

    Temperament needs to be inside a sound dog. Breeding for both is what reputable breeders do.

    I am prepared to go back to the drawing board and start again if my bloodlines are not good.

  7. #17
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    I have a question-

    If I'm looking at breeders/dogs etc how will i know a breeder is actively breeding for good temperaments other than them just telling me? Would I just pick it up from the way they talk about their breeding program & dogs?

  8. #18
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    Meet the other dogs in their kennels. Are they friendly, according to their breed. Remembering that not all breeds are as enthusiastic to meet visitors as others. But they shouldn't be trembling, nor should they be ready to rip your head off if you are standing there with their owner.

    So many people want to blame the breeder for the temperament of their dog. When it has more to do with the environment that the dog grows up in.

    For instance my puppies have just moved from the office to the lounge room at 3.5 wks of age. This will get them used to the sounds etc of the house, the vacuum will be used, the TV is running and they can now see the other dogs thru the glass sliding doors, the lawn mower etc.

    When you arrive at my house you are met enthusiastically by the dam of the puppies.

    Go to a show and see their stock in action, talk to others with dogs from their kennels and get their opinion. But again I say a lot has to do with how the puppies have been raised from the age of 3wks.

  9. #19
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    Thanks MAC.

    Ages ago someone said they would only look at buying pups that are raised in a home environment, not kennels. So this would go hand in hand with exposing the pups to lots of different things, as you said.

    I'll definitely remember this

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