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Thread: Pure/Cross Breeding

  1. #61
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    The only Purebred dogs I have been around in my life have had problems.
    My sister had 2 ex show Pekingnese (different breeders, same rescue) and both died Suddenly. My brothers dog has numerous issues, the golden retriever up the road had a hip replacement at 6 months old.. the list goes on.

    While I don't think you should purposely Breed Crossbreeds you should definately only Breed Healthy Purebreeds.

    Kimba is a cross and we have only owned Crossbreeds.

    As much as I have a soft Spot for certain PBs it would be sheer luck I got the one I am after (bull terrier)
    After adopting Kimba from the rspca there's no way I would pay someone for Breeding any dog. IMO theres enough dogs out there already and I'll take one that really needs a second chance.

  2. #62
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    I have been reading this thread with much interest.
    I myself dont have any issues with crossbreeds,I own one myself, only where they came from. Just like with purebreeds I would want to see the crossbreeds parents and know the history or get one from a rescue.

    The purebred dogs we see today were all crossbred to create them but of course that was to create a dog that fitted a purpose. Today only a handful of dogs are still used for their original purpose and most now become pets or for the show ring. Im not overly keen on the show ring and the breeding that takes place to create the "perfect dog". I know its not as bad now but many dogs like pugs and the English bull dog suffer with their many rolls of skin on their face etc just to create the standard.

    Anyway going off topic there sorry So yea I see no reason why a responsible breeder should not breed crossbreeds as long as they are treated the same as purebreeds, ie see the parents, desexed etc. Crossbreeds are no less of a dog than a purebred. I defiantly hate the byb who churn out the designer pups, but proper breeders are ok in my opinion.

  3. #63
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    Any kind of cross breeding is wrong. On purpose or not. If you own an entire dog, as part of your job it means you must do EVERYTHING you can to make sure those dogs do not impregnate others or get pregnant themself.
    There is no such thing as an accidental breeding and there is no excuse for it. I own two crossbreeds, so don't think I have something against them.
    I saw an entire Lab roaming my streets the other day. It wouldn't let me catch it though.
    The only reason dogs should be bred is too improve the breed.
    Take Dorte for example(Cleasanta), she may have already told you, but she owns two purebred Staffys. Both beautiful, except her male is NOT the best representation of the breed after having all his tests, so he has been nutered. Her bitch Ruby on the other end still has a chance. Why bring half arse breeds into the world when we have so many dying in shelters already? ESPECIALLY Staffy X's.
    Why purposly bring more mutts into the world?
    Education not Legislation

  4. #64
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    Oh, and let me add. No one is saying crossbreeds don't make great pets, its just morally wrong IMO.
    Education not Legislation

  5. #65

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    My thoughts are that whatever dogs are being bred the parents should be appropriately health tested for hereditary diseases and that the breeder follows recommended breeding protocols/guidelines from hereditary diseases.

    On rare occasions, note again on rare occasions, Kennel Clubs and Breed Clubs do allow cross-breeding, and there is a special ANKC Development Register that can be utilised with justified cases that have been management approved.

    At this moment in the UK here is an interesting case and I wonder when they will appear in Australia as maybe Dalmations here may have this genetic problem. The following is from this link address.
    Registration of a Low Uric Acid Dalmatian Import from the USA - The Kennel Club

    The Kennel Club
    Registration of a Low Uric Acid Dalmatian Import from the USA

    At its meeting on 5th January 2010, the Kennel Club General Committee accepted an application to register an imported Dalmatian produced from a breeding programme which was originated with an intentional Pointer/Dalmatian cross. This cross-breeding was carried out in the USA as part of a programme aimed at introducing the low (or normal) uric acid gene into the Dalmatian breed.

    This decision is subject to certain conditions, which include the dog being examined by two Championship Show judges to confirm that its external appearance and characteristics are representative of the breed.

    The decision taken by the General Committee is in line with the Kennel Club’s commitment to consider applications to register dogs from out-crossings and inter-variety matings if it is felt that to do so may present potential health and welfare benefits.

    The Kennel Club consulted the Dalmatian breed clubs on this matter and their joint feedback was considered at length by the General Committee before arriving at this decision.

    Background

    It is believed that the Dalmatian breed is fixed for a recessive mutation of a gene that alters uric acid metabolism, resulting in increased urinary excretion of uric acid. This gene is not expressed in most other breeds of dog which excrete lower amounts of uric acid in their urine.

    The use of a recently developed DNA test for this genetic mutation on Dalmatians in the USA has shown that the frequency of the normal gene is close to zero in the USA population of the breed. Similar DNA testing of the UK population has yet to be undertaken, but it is likely that a comparable scenario exists in the UK population of Dalmatians.

    Some years ago in the USA, a cross-breeding was carried out between a Dalmatian and a Pointer with the intention of producing offspring that were low uric acid (LUA) excretors, because the Pointer used in the cross would not have carried the mutant gene. The offspring from this mating and their descendants have subsequently been back-crossed with purebred Dalmatians over many successive generations.

    Decision

    Recently, the Kennel Club received a proposal to register an imported LUA Dalmatian that is descended from the initial Pointer/Dalmatian cross. The outcross Pointer appears at least 13 generations back in the pedigree of the imported dog. In line with the general aim of the KC to help individual breeders and breed clubs to improve the health and welfare of future litters, the General Committee has agreed to register this imported LUA Dalmatian subject to confirmation from two championship Show judges that the imported dog’s external appearance and characteristics are representative of the breed.

    The registration records of this dog and its descendants will be annotated by the KC’s normal asterisk system whereby the progeny of the first mating between the dog and a registered Dalmatian, the F1 progeny, will have their registrations annotated with three asterisks. Then, when F1 progeny are bred from, their progeny, the F2 progeny, will be annotated with two asterisks. F2 progeny will produce F3 progeny which will be registered with one asterisk. The F4 and subsequent generations will have no special annotation.

    In addition to the above conditions the committee also agreed that the registrations of all progeny would be endorsed with the restriction ‘Not eligible for Export Pedigree’ for the next five years, and the owners would be required to submit a health report, to include BAER testing results, on all progeny in five years’ time.
    .

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Any kind of cross breeding is wrong. On purpose or not. If you own an entire dog, as part of your job it means you must do EVERYTHING you can to make sure those dogs do not impregnate others or get pregnant themself.
    There is no such thing as an accidental breeding and there is no excuse for it. I own two crossbreeds, so don't think I have something against them.
    I saw an entire Lab roaming my streets the other day. It wouldn't let me catch it though.
    The only reason dogs should be bred is too improve the breed.
    Take Dorte for example(Cleasanta), she may have already told you, but she owns two purebred Staffys. Both beautiful, except her male is NOT the best representation of the breed after having all his tests, so he has been nutered. Her bitch Ruby on the other end still has a chance. Why bring half arse breeds into the world when we have so many dying in shelters already? ESPECIALLY Staffy X's.
    Why purposly bring more mutts into the world?
    Yep...that is correct. I decided my boy wasn't good enough to be bred from and/or used for show, so he has been neutered! He is just not good enough to be used for breeding, but make a perfect family pet. There are too many sub-standard bred SBT's out there...from "breeders" who do not give a damn about health, conformation, temperament etc. I was NOT going to be one of those breeders! My breeding "stock" will only be from good, healthy, sound temperament and excellent conformation dogs/bitches. Ruby is still showing that "something special" overall, so for now...she is still entire.

  7. #67
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    Same with my Setter Cleas. She is in fact the first de-sexed dog I've had in many many years. She was done late last year at age 4.

    She has a wonderful temperament, beautiful coat, good hip score, won numerous best headed, something which is important to setters, because you don't want the flews too sloppy or the eyes too lose. But she has a couple of minor things that I didn't like about her:

    She's too big (I could put her to a small dog but why??)
    The fall of her top line didn't sit right with me.
    Her whole action is loose.
    She never won an age group. I always look for a couple of age groups here and there.
    And the crunch she has tumors in the tissue of the hair follicle, 7 in total.

  8. #68
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    Quincy, I think your example is a great example of where deliberate cross-breeding can be used to eliminate genetic health issues. Obviously the breeder who is undertaking this massive project is committed to improving the breed. They are doing the right thing by making sure it is being supervised by their governing body. I have no doubt that they will be spending a huge amount of money to see if this program can work.

    It's this kind of example that I support, but in general I am totally against cross-breeding when there are so many dogs in pounds looking for homes.

    In My Home Dog Minding
    www.greyhoundrescue.com.au

  9. #69
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    Quincy, entirely different matter. If you look up Dogs NSW code of ethics you will see where they have made an allowance for the possibility of the same thing. Although it would be a long process.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Same with my Setter Cleas. She is in fact the first de-sexed dog I've had in many many years. She was done late last year at age 4.

    She has a wonderful temperament, beautiful coat, good hip score, won numerous best headed, something which is important to setters, because you don't want the flews too sloppy or the eyes too lose. But she has a couple of minor things that I didn't like about her:

    She's too big (I could put her to a small dog but why??)
    The fall of her top line didn't sit right with me.
    Her whole action is loose.
    She never won an age group. I always look for a couple of age groups here and there.

    And the crunch she has tumors in the tissue of the hair follicle, 7 in total.
    To some people this might be "minor" issues...but to good breeders...these issues are very legit!

    Sumo's issues are:

    He is too big as per standard
    Ears are too big...nicely set, but too big
    Lips are a bit loose
    Muzzle too long, which make his stop a bit weak
    Too many skin problems that can be passed on to offspring
    OCD which can also be passed on to offspring
    Not quite square enough...body a bit long
    A bit straight in stiffle
    Weak chest (due to long body)

    He has a gorgeous personality...no aggression issues with humans or other dogs...beautiful topline and tail set, beautiful powerful movements, beautiful dark eyes...but these traits are not enough to breed from. The basis must be there and if they are not within the standard...then off goes the reproductive organs...IMO.

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