Animals Regulation of Sale Bill or Pet Shop Bill

[Disneygotpierced]

Originally Posted by Liza

Of course rescues and pounds will also have to relook at their adoption procedures if this were to happen. I'm not saying I expect breeding to be cut out as this would require a major restructuring of the entire dog ownership system and community, but if a plan was put forward that suggested this I would likely support it (depending on details, of course, such as the rescue issue you mentioned). When we see that the population wants to adopt more dogs than are available we make breeding legal again on a limited basis, of course it wouldn't be a "Oops...no more dogs...now what?" type of thing - there would have to be a solid and thought-out plan in order. I'm daring to dream

I like this idea! Except I still think the option should be open to people who want purebreds..But I would certainly support this idea. Perhaps instead of selling puppies pet shops could have lists of shelter animals and numbers to inquire at. This would put a stop to impulse buying, puppy mills etc but you could still have the fun of going in and cooing at the puppy...Photos.

[mouseandchicken]

My parents owned a pet shop when we were kids, we had mice and birds in the shop, any kittens or dogs people wanted we would source for them from breeders, charge very minimally on top of the price set by the breeder, what my father looked at was the ongoing business of that new pet owner. But we are talking about many years ago when pet food was not in supermarkets etc.

As for stopping all breeding until shelters were empty, well that would take from me years of research and kill of successful bloodlines etc. Where would we start from again?? I swapped from the Aust Kelpie to Whippets because the Kelpie people have basically strangled their breed by not allowing others breeders to use good dogs and lets face it you can't go anywhere else for a good Kelpie but here in Aust. The whippet breeders are not so narrow minded and of course they can source good stock from Eng. Can. Am. etc.
I personally like knowing what I'm getting, size, coat, temperament, exercise requirements etc.
I'm not saying something should be put in place to restrict pet shops, byb and mills, but not so broad as it could carry over to effect Reg. Breeders.

[mouseandchicken]

That last line should read - I'm not saying that something should NOT be put in place regarding pet shops, byb, mills etc.

Please excuse my muddled, slightly hung over fingers and brain.

Happy New Year to all.

[Anne]

There is NO overpopulation of dogs, so how on earth would stopping breeding solve anything? The minute breeding re-commenced, the exact same issue would still be there. It would only be the lack of dogs that would see a temporary cessation of the problem.

In my view, there needs to be laws on ownership, education on ownership and a complete change of attitude to dogs and cats in society to resolve the current problems we have for good.

When it comes to the canine population, I haven't figures on hand but had researched them some years ago and posted them on another forum. The figures clearly show that whilst the population of Australia in the last decade or more had increased by a large percentage, the growth of canine ownership grew by a much smaller percentage. That sghould put to bed the 'too many dogs' scenario.

[Liza]

Anne, you're talking about stopping breeding so I'm assuming your post is directed at me? Sorry if I'm mistaken! But if so, I don't think I ever claimed that there was dog overpopulation, did I? I'm not sure what made you think canine overpopulation was my reason for supporting outlawing all breeding until rescues, pounds and the streets were becoming clear of abandoned and homeless dogs. My personal reasons for supporting an idea like this is, as I mentioned, the fact that there are plenty of dogs to adopt in pounds. I'm not saying there's an overpopulation of dogs period - just an overpopulation of homeless dogs. In my eyes, even one homeless dog is one too many.

[Disneygotpierced]

I do a lot for rescue shelters. I clean the cages, take the dogs for walks, socialize with the pets and even answer the phones. I have been repeatedly turned down for adoption and I've come to the conclusion that I don't want a homeless dog. I want a show quality pup.

I know we've been over this Liza but just out of curiosity do you think people like me should *have* to adopt a homeless dog instead of buying a registered, well socialized, show quality pup? Because if everyone was forced (yes forced...When someone wants a dog that badly they'll exhaust all options) to adopt a dog, eventually someone will out of desperation adopt a dog that doesn't suit their lifestyle, or a novice would adopt a dog they didn't have the skills to care for. (Eg puppy mill rescue.)

Don't you think that's an ugly, unfair mess for the dogs and people involved?

[Liza]

Disneygotpierced, I'm not going to twist anyone's arm about "having" or "not having" to do anything. I simply said that I, personally, would likely vote for a bill that outlawed breeding for a certain amount of time, depending on circumstances and details. I'm no politician, but as we live in a democracy here I assume that people's backing on some level would be required for anything of this kind to go through. If the population at large is that against it, they can do something. I'm not trying to *force* anyone or twist anyone's arm into supporting a system like this, I simply said that I, personally, would likely support something like this.

And sure, I understand that some people want a show quality pup. Personally for my next dog I'm hoping to get a pet quality Pharaoh Hound. But should a well thought out and planned system which was considered from all angles outlawing breeding be proposed, I would agree that the overall benefit to all of those dogs would hold more value than my individual desire of my next breed.

[Shar Pei Rescue Victoria]

Originally Posted by Disneygotpierced

Forcing people to adopt isn't the way to go IMO, adoption agencies can turn you down for the most stupid reasons and give a dog to someone unqualified because they have a large yard.
I am certainly not saying all rescues are bad, I'm just saying they're not for everyone.
Also the idea of stopping breeding until all the dogs are rescued is fundamentally flawed- what happens when all the dogs are 'rescued?' We just re=fill the shelters?

DGP I would have to disagree with you. I know that "rescues" that are not registered (I can think of quite a few) as an org. may have sus adoption criteria, however many of the serious rescue agencies (those who are registered) , in fact all those that I deal with, make a point of making their applicants jump through hoops.

After saying that, my own basic criteria is something that many may disagree with. Each application is viewed on its own merits, and I do make exceptions from time to time, but in a nut shell, I want to see in my adoptive parents...aged between 30 & 60 yrs, prepared to go to school (I actually make them research their local dog school and get back to me with details)! Dog MUST sleep inside, good fences are a must, and a genuine desire to love and care for a pei. Most successful adoptive parents keep in touch with me and I LOVE that.

As to running out of animals in shelters to adopt. Did you know that around Australia (sadly) there are 2000 (yes 2000 per day) dogs and cats put down daily. Now that # obviously does not include the dogs & cats that rescue groups take, that is simply the # who do not see the light of another day. It will be a very long time before the shelters can put out their
"out of business " sign.

As to registered breeders, there are some whom I have a great respect for. Those who do not behave like puppy mills, who micro chip their pups before they leave, who support their specific breed rescue, those who do not sell an entire dog unless their is a contract to show or to breed (being another registered breeder) and those who do not breed lines with known issues within their lines. This last point I feel very strongly about as I meet far too many people who have lost their pei too early because of Shar Pei Fever, dogs who they have purchased from certain registered breeders who continuely breed dogs with this fault.

I think its simple really. Allow the registered breeders who make themselves accountable for the LIFE of their pup, ban pet shp sales (really quickly please) and reduce the # of dogs and cats euthanised.

Sorry if I have offended anyone, this is simply my opinion, backed up with facts and figures....and a lot of experience in finding perfect forever homes

[Shar Pei Rescue Victoria]

Originally Posted by Disneygotpierced

I do a lot for rescue shelters. I clean the cages, take the dogs for walks, socialize with the pets and even answer the phones. I have been repeatedly turned down for adoption and I've come to the conclusion that I don't want a homeless dog. I want a show quality pup.

I know we've been over this Liza but just out of curiosity do you think people like me should *have* to adopt a homeless dog instead of buying a registered, well socialized, show quality pup? Because if everyone was forced (yes forced...When someone wants a dog that badly they'll exhaust all options) to adopt a dog, eventually someone will out of desperation adopt a dog that doesn't suit their lifestyle, or a novice would adopt a dog they didn't have the skills to care for. (Eg puppy mill rescue.)

Don't you think that's an ugly, unfair mess for the dogs and people involved?

Ahhhh, you see you fall into the catagory of "under the desired age". In your case given I have had the privledge of getting to know you, I would organise for you to have either a homeless dog who is registered (1 in 5 dogs I get through are registered) or alternatively I would organise a meet for you with one of the registered breeders I have respect for.

In other words, if you decide that YOU personally want a pei, I will ensure you qualify for the adoption/purchase process.

[Shar Pei Rescue Victoria]

Originally Posted by Anne

In my view, there needs to be laws on ownership, education on ownership and a complete change of attitude to dogs and cats in society to resolve the current problems we have for good.

IMO, the owner is the one who should be registered, and not the dog. Any owner should be made accountable for the pets they have in their homes. Yes education would make so much sense.