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Thread: Born Aggressive?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    Putting a dog to sleep because of dog aggression? Insane. Why not work on it? Oh, it's too hard and I guess time consuming. Is it so hard to understand that DA does not mean bad dog, but something completelly different? In my opinion, DA is normal, and it can be controlled.
    No one ever said don't work on it. However, it appears you don't rescue. Liability is with the rescuer. There is no way in hell I would ever ever ever rehome an aggressive dog no matter what the aggression. There will always be that WHAT IF? What if the new owners relax? What if they don't like the neighbours dog? What if they get out? Not worth it.

    No wonder people push for BSL - when you have people saying that dog aggression is NORMAL. Why normalise something that is less than desirable.

    People say our kids are dumber, I say our expectations are lower. I raise expectations in my classroom and lo and behold I get a better response from students. Why on earth would I feel differently about dogs? The two rescues I have here are broken animals physically - unrehomable - but they have the best temperments I have seen in dogs and that is why they are still here. They will see their days out with me. I have refused to take dogs before that are suspect and I will pts any animal I am concerned about.

    Normalising bad traits doesn't make them right. I am astounded that you and it seems others, believe that dog aggression is par for the course. So many nice bull breeds around WHY settle for less?

    As for your nasty little comment about not dealing with these dogs because "it's too hard and time consuming" - what utter rot. I've worked with dogs - where it has been hard and time consuming - but even at the end of it I would not rehome a dog that was suspect.

    I repeat again for those who keep missing it

    AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOUR DOES NOT EQUAL AGGRESSION. A NORMAL DOG CAN DISPLAY AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR. AN AGGRESSIVE DOG IS UNABLE TO DISPLAY ANY OTHER BEHAVIOUR.

    I am beginning to understand why there are breed restrictions. Very sad IMO as there are so many nice dogs around to choose from.

  2. #42
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    I will add that on both occasions these dogs were surrendered privately to me and the owners did not have the balls to be honest, suprise, suprise!!! as bloody usuall.

    They just looking for a way to walk away from dumping them, feeling great in some sort of twisted belief that they have done the right thing and avoided the pound

    Before taking a dog from a shelter i am able to give them a basic temp test, including their reactions to unknown dogs.

    Private surrenders are the worst, as you actually get to see the A*#!holes and witness their crap

    Nic

  3. #43
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    Even with temperment assessments it takes 6 weeks to really get to know a dog and its behaviour. Most dogs are rehomed before that times so you never really know know. Often a rescuer has to go with gut feel and the more times you rescue the better you get at it. I am not suggesting not doing temperment assessments, all I am saying is that once you see an aggressive dog or 3 you start knowing what to look for.

  4. #44

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    OK guys , settle.

    I will give this thread one more chance as I believe it is also educational to some.
    But if it continues to get personal then it will go

    At the end of the day,each one of us will have a limit to the level of DA we will accept and work with.
    I will not tolerate Human Aggression though in any breed of dog.
    I also have little time for fear aggression, I believe it to be the most volatile and dangerous of all aggression.If I cannot deal with a fear aggressive animal myself ,then it goes to sleep in my arms.

    I have also PTS DA animals.
    It was the single most hardest thing I have ever had to do
    I did not make the call because I was not prepared to put in the effort. I made the call because of quality of life.

    This started primarily I think because one person has trouble understanding/accepting that certain breeds are geneticly predisposed to DA and that because of that trait each and every owner needs to be aware.
    It does not mean ceasing to breed .

    As I have said,2 excellent examples of the breed can still produce a high DA offspring.
    It does not make that animal any less worthy or managable.

    Please play nice guys
    I dont want to be the big bad Mod
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  5. #45
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    Hi Choppa Chop

    You are a long way from big bad mod believe me, and you have been very patient as always.

    I do not have a major problem with fear aggresion, i am familiar with FA,work with it consistantly and have had amazing results...all in awesome homes after developing great confidence and skills. Different breeds though...

    Anyway, this is the first chance i have had at looking at the forum recently, and my first day off in AGES (which i might add was forced due to a dog in great need) so it drives me nuts when people question my ethics.

    Perhaps those who are happy to rehome dogs showing marked signs of DA and PA should start up their own site/rescue group all of their own and see how far that gets them!

    Nic

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Even with temperment assessments it takes 6 weeks to really get to know a dog and its behaviour. Most dogs are rehomed before that times so you never really know know. Often a rescuer has to go with gut feel and the more times you rescue the better you get at it. I am not suggesting not doing temperment assessments, all I am saying is that once you see an aggressive dog or 3 you start knowing what to look for.
    Agreed!

    Nic

  7. #47

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    Hi Nic

    Thanks ! As always you are a breath of reason
    But on your day off you should be relaxing.

    OK , now with the rescue/rehoming .
    I am one who will consider rehoming a DA animal BUT!
    It will depend on the level of DA,age of dog,breed of dog,whether I have an experienced responsible carer/home availible .
    Many different things will come into play.

    But I have ,as said,also PTS DA animals rather than rehome.
    All for reasins above that they just did not,could not meet .

    I believe it is a very indidvidual thing.
    As you say,you will tolerate fear aggression , I will not so much.
    Yet I will tolerate some DA , you will not so much.

    At the end of the day , we are all about ensuring pleasant dogs within our lives , of course!
    But sometimes a pleasant dog will be a little left of field and require a little savvy, alittle extra responsability.

    As I said , I believe it to be an individual thing.

    But I guess with us being with our breed...we are a little more accepting then most , we have to be , it is our dogs history.

    Last edited by ChoppaChop; 03-06-2009 at 05:26 PM. Reason: typed too fast for brain
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  8. #48
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    Hi Choppa Chop

    Agreed!

    Yes it is very much an individual thing. Where i am responsible for the dog for it's entire life (which i insist upon, second on the chip details, contracts etc) It is on my head at the end of the day.

    I understand and can relate to different dynamics.

    Each to their own While i am paying the bills, taking responsiblity of lives and doing the hard yards day in and day out i will make decisions based on personal interactions, life and experiences while in care, profesional opinions, compassion and my gut.

    After all rescue groups are motivated in SAVING lives, not snuffing them out.

    Nic

  9. #49
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    I don't have trouble understanding that dog aggression is part of a breed - please speak to me directly instead of treating me like I'm not a part of the conversation. I have trouble understanding the complacency of some people when it comes to aggression.

    Not one of you has denied that you (that being you, beau and fedra) would breed a dog aggressive dog and that is concerning. Yes aggression may appear in a dog. But that dog should be desexed and removed from the gene pool.

    Others have said there are good animals in the breed. Why not stick to them?

  10. #50
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    As to fear aggression. is it a reactive aggression or is it a poor temperment. If it is the former you can work with it, if it is the latter the dog will never be happy. Cappy is reactive, he had a fair temperment which I didnt know what to do with. No I do and we manage just fine. If it was his very nature that was bad I wouldnt be able to work with him. He is my own dog - not a rescue. People told me to have him pts. I didn't listen and I am so glad BUT he has been enourmous work and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. AND most people wouldn't have the tenacity to stick with it

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