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Thread: Born Aggressive?

  1. #31

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    Not good to hear about the headache

    And as I am one of the Mods I will certainly let you know when you go overboard.
    I will say this , calling someone a bogan etc will not lend weight to your argument and is quite offencive in the modern days use of the word.

    If we could keep this as it was going,with sensible ,adult like views I would be grateful

    Now , I am not much better myself this morning , however , the varying degrees of DA is quite important to understand and I feel very important to what we are trying to say.
    Yes I see what you are saying in regards to perhaps at times being another 'form' of aggression all together , but I believe that was what Beau was in fact trying convey .

    You said earlier that we should not continue our breed/breeds due to DA.
    Sadly that would see the end of some very stable , beautiful breeds that just happen to be geneticly geared towards DA.

    This does not make me play into the hands of BSL.
    In fact I believe the oppisite as I am very aware of the trait and take suitable measure should it appear in my dogs.

    Now I'm off to get ready for the doctors.
    Play nice people
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    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  2. #32
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    I never ever said don't continue the breed. I said breed good sound stable dogs, not ones that want to kill each other. I don't need to lend weight to my argument by not calling Beau a bogan lol - what I am saying is clear and logical. Don't breed dogs that try to kill other dogs.

    There is a difference between justifying aggression and identifying it. Just because you can say "That dog is territorial" doesn't mean it's ok for that dog to be unjustifiably aggressive.

    There is a difference between "yes, aggression appears in this breed and can be mananged" and "this breed is aggressive but we like it so we just breed the dogs anyway"

    aggression appears in all breeds of dog, but if you are breeding a dog for aggression or despite the fact it has shown up in lines multiple times then you have no business breeding animals. You being the royal you of course as opposed to the person you.

    Whilst you might find bogan offensive, I find being called an idiot more so and as there is no report button for behaviour here I figure I have to give at least as good as I get - in moderation. If this is wrong I am sure you will discipline me as appropriate Then again as an impartial mod, you will also discipline others whether they agree with you or not

  3. #33
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    I had a similar problem my puppy and several others were attacked at puppy school by a staffy rotti x the school and vet reccomended he be put down.
    The owner also has the sister and her friend another from the litter and they have no problems.
    Some of the issue has to be the dog it all cant be blamed on upbringing or poor breeding.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    How insecure exactly are you beau? You like to put words in peoples mouths as well as "call them out" like some macho bogan. What colour flannel is in for weddings this year?

    Many people here already know my creds - but I will point out I never said I was a dog trainer - I have a real job - I said dog training. Suffice it to say I had 7 years at one club, 5 years at various other clubs - learning how they train, 2 years forming another club, 13 years assessing and rehabilitating dogs for shelters including AAPS, RSPCA and SDH. I've worked with behaviourists including Robert Holmes and Kaye Hargreaves to understand dog problems. If those places and people can trust me with a dog (Kaye even adopted a dog from me) I think that's some bloody good creds. I also live with a dog aggressive dog - not better "creds" than that. What are yours? Did didums do an NDTF course once?

    You seem to think you can put me on the back foot by "calling me out". I've laid mine on the line - now what about yours...

    I never said pts over training, however I don't believe something that is inherent in a dog can be trained out of them and thus they will always be suspect. After all, this is what this thread is about. Why would you breed known dog aggressive dogs when you can breed nice specimens of the breed?

    As for types of aggression manifesting as dog aggression - well duh. The most common is fear aggression. You however seem to paint dog aggression as something to be proud of, and almost desired in your breed. I hope to god I don't live anywhere near you, because your dogs would be a danger to mine.

    I suspect what you so loosely term competitive aggression is actually resource guarding. Try to use the correct terms when "calling one out"

    Choppa - dog aggression if shown ocassionally is NOT dog aggression. Dog aggression is actively wanting to kill other dogs every time a dog sees them. That is dangerous. For example: dog a gets into dog b's yard. Dog b attacks and kills dog a. IMO dog b is not inherently aggressive, they have just shown a territorial aggression which can be justified. However, dog a jumps into dog b's yard and kills dog b - I would call that dog aggression as the dogs purpose was to get into the other yard and kill the other dog. does that make sense?

    Still haven't knocked that headache on the err head - took two tablets last night - passed out for 8 hrs, got to work barely in time and am leaving to go home sick soon.

    My apologies to the mods if you feel I am being too err...aggressive - you need to lay out the boundaries for me as to what I can and cannot say.
    Oh my dear, Do I like to put words in peoples mouths do I? funny I dont believe I have ever conversed with you before this thread, my favourite coloured flanny is blue if you must know, fantastic for weddings.

    I just wanted to know where you are comming from, since it was like drawing blood from a stone, did you even read my post about aggression? or just glance at it in a drugged out stupor?

    My dogs are a danger you say, wow, really! you seem to know your stuff by 2 of my posts in this thread on aggressive tendancies, amazing powers of esp. Just amazing, how did you come to that conclusion btw

    I think you are a troll occy. Only trolls bait like that.

    You seem a a lovely person, you are so so polite LOL
    And no competitive aggression is not resource guarding lol, it is something that you have been doing in this thread for example, it is a basic aggression in most mammals.

    cheers big ears
    Last edited by Beau; 03-06-2009 at 01:51 PM.

  5. #35
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    Geez! Just stumbled upon this thread.

    Just a quick post from me as;

    1. I have basic hands on experience with dog to dog aggression.

    2. I am so time poor atm

    Just my thoughts and experiences here from a RESCUE perspective....

    I only tolerate a small amount of dog to dog aggression in my fosters, there are many reasons for this though predominantly because this is always a multi dog house hold, and i will not under any circumstances rehome a dog showing marked signs of DAaggresion (or any other aggresion for that matter)

    I have pts in my arms dogs showing DA and people aggression and will do it again if needed.

    Stringent rehoming and full disclosure is paramount for me as risk factors that lead to dumping and abandonment etc are almost eliminated. I have never had a dog returned to me and i am in touch with all owners (mostly their updates, which i love)

    My view is your average dog owner does not have the skills, experience and knowledge to take on a dog showing marked signs of DA. How on earth do you regulate/manage and ensure safety during the dogs life when they are out of your care?

    It is not something i am PERSONALLY prepared to risk in rescue and i certainly do not want to be responsible/or play a part in the death or injury of an animal or person.
    And lets not forget the court cases associated....

    I witness EVERY single day rows and ROWS of these breeds in my local shelter and ask why are more being bred when the majority of these breeds in my local pound are euthed? Why are we not rehoming the dogs already born?
    Clearly the breeding practices (BYB) and responsible rehoming is extremely poor. I am NOT having a go at RB's here, but for goodness sake, desex your animals BEFORE they are rehomed!

    Just my thoughts...flame suit on!

    Nic

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERINAH View Post
    I had a similar problem my puppy and several others were attacked at puppy school by a staffy rotti x the school and vet reccomended he be put down.
    The owner also has the sister and her friend another from the litter and they have no problems.
    Some of the issue has to be the dog it all cant be blamed on upbringing or poor breeding.

    If not nature or nurture then what?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau View Post
    Oh my dear, Do I like to put words in peoples mouths do I? funny I dont believe I have ever conversed with you before this thread, my favourite coloured flanny is blue if you must know, fantastic for weddings.

    I just wanted to know where you are comming from, since it was like drawing blood from a stone, did you even read my post about aggression? or just glance at it in a drugged out stupor?

    My dogs are a danger you say, wow, really! you seem to know your stuff by 2 of my posts in this thread on aggressive tendancies, amazing powers of esp. Just amazing, how did you come to that conclusion btw

    I think you are a troll occy. Only trolls bait like that.

    You seem a a lovely person, you are so so polite LOL
    And no competitive aggression is not resource guarding lol, it is something that you have been doing in this thread for example, it is a basic aggression in most mammals.

    cheers big ears
    And this is your big comeback? I am a troll and still you've not cited your own superior knowledge. Wonderful. You've painted yourself to be exactly what you are. Obviously you have no qualifications at anything but being antagonistic on an internet forum. LOL

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Geez! Just stumbled upon this thread.

    Just a quick post from me as;

    1. I have basic hands on experience with dog to dog aggression.

    2. I am so time poor atm

    Just my thoughts and experiences here from a RESCUE perspective....

    I only tolerate a small amount of dog to dog aggression in my fosters, there are many reasons for this though predominantly because this is always a multi dog house hold, and i will not under any circumstances rehome a dog showing marked signs of DAaggresion (or any other aggresion for that matter)

    I have pts in my arms dogs showing DA and people aggression and will do it again if needed.

    Stringent rehoming and full disclosure is paramount for me as risk factors that lead to dumping and abandonment etc are almost eliminated. I have never had a dog returned to me and i am in touch with all owners (mostly their updates, which i love)

    My view is your average dog owner does not have the skills, experience and knowledge to take on a dog showing marked signs of DA. How on earth do you regulate/manage and ensure safety during the dogs life when they are out of your care?

    It is not something i am PERSONALLY prepared to risk in rescue and i certainly do not want to be responsible/or play a part in the death or injury of an animal or person.
    And lets not forget the court cases associated....

    I witness EVERY single day rows and ROWS of these breeds in my local shelter and ask why are more being bred when the majority of these breeds in my local pound are euthed? Why are we not rehoming the dogs already born?
    Clearly the breeding practices (BYB) and responsible rehoming is extremely poor. I am NOT having a go at RB's here, but for goodness sake, desex your animals BEFORE they are rehomed!

    Just my thoughts...flame suit on!

    Nic
    excellent post!

    aggression is a necessary communication tool between dogs. My parents are about to come over and bring their dog. Billie will bark at him, Cappy will snarl and Flash will ignore him. Poor dog never gets a chance but that is because he comes in and tries to rule the place as if he owns it. No one here attacks him because he gets the message - piss off and get out of our faces.

    I had an argument with a workmate because he teaches his dogs to tolerate his kids pulling their ears and generally carrying on. He hits the dog if it growls. he has been lucky so far - one day he will create a dog that will bite first and ask questions later.

    There is aggression the behaviour and there is aggression the trait.

  9. #39
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    Putting a dog to sleep because of dog aggression? Insane. Why not work on it? Oh, it's too hard and I guess time consuming. Is it so hard to understand that DA does not mean bad dog, but something completelly different? In my opinion, DA is normal, and it can be controlled.

  10. #40
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    Absoluetly Fedra and it was a nightmare emotionally for me.

    Both dogs showed marked DA AND people aggression. I refuse to justify my decision to you as i have enough experience under my belt to know what i am doing.

    I always consult my Vet, who is nothing short of a guru and his opinion in both circumstances was pts, no questions asked.

    He also said on the last agonising decision "Nic, one of these days a rescue group is going to be held accountable for irresponsible rehoming...you will make the right decision and i support you"

    If you are prepared to work differently then so be it.

    I work with a large number of repuatable rescue groups and this is something that must be faced fairly rarely.

    If you are interseted in rehoming dogs showing marked signs of DA and PA I am concerned. I am also offended, as i work my arse off in rescue on a daily basis and have had a minimum of 40 dogs through here in the past twelve months. The cost financially and emotionally is almost unbearable at times, not to mention the toll for me personally and on my family!

    Nic

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