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Thread: Ban of Dogs/cats in Pet Shops

  1. #11
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    im with you aussie... banning live livestock trade, my fiance would be out of a job..
    i know that some stud breeders look after their stock better than they look after themselves. The live export trade is worth $380m (sheep) $651.9 million(cattle)


    Because the shop owner told me that he was going to put it down after i brought it. I got the kitten from a country town pet store. After being on this site, it has open my eyes about pet stores and has stopped me from coming a ACD breeder.
    Last edited by Peta23; 12-02-2009 at 11:15 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    Okay...

    Pet shops usually sell young puppies and kittens. They are not microchipped (which is now a necessity under the new Cat Law Act 2009, yes???) they are not vaccinated, they are not de-sexed. Further more, they are not wormed to the correct degree and schedule they should be, nor are they vet checked for any health problems or abnormalities.
    Sorry, I have to disagree with some of the points you made. In NSW, microchipping of all dogs and cats has been mandatory for well over 10 years now. All NSW pet shops microchip animals. It is also law that they must be vaccinated and have a certificate showing this.

    I am not totally against pet shops selling animals to be frank. Let's look at it in a different light and I will refer to NSW primarly as this is the state that I live in and am familiar with. Try to read everything I write objectively.

    It is legal for anyone to bred dogs..

    They need no license. They need meet no requirements. They do not need experience or knowledge. We have seen ample examples on this forum. They can breed registered purebreds by gaining a simple acknowledgement from the ANKC or they can breed unregistered 'purebreds' or crossbred dogs. They do need to abide by several Acts and local Laws, including those written to ensure animals are provided with the basics in life that are needed to survive.

    These people who have a litter of puppies could be caring for those dogs in any manner, hidden in their home and their backyard. The overwhelming majority do not desex. Many do not vaccinate or microchip (I am yet actually to meet or know of a registered breeder who does not vaccinate however).

    There is no-one that checks, watches over or even concerns themselves with these dogs unless a neighbour complains of noise or numbers.

    On the other hand, most pet shops are located in the public's face. They have people walking in and out all day who can view, watch and concern themselves with the practices of the pet shop. They have inspectors who regularly inspect, shopping centre managers who watch over them, animal welfare lobbysists watching them and they operate under three times the number of codes, laws and legislation than any breeder.

    Re-iterating apoint I made earlier, in NSW, microchipping laws have been in effect for over 10 years. Pet shops are routinely inspected for such things as microchipped dogs and cats. The instance of a puppy being purchased from a pet shop without a micorchip are few and far between and yet a high proportion of dogs in NSW pounds are not microchipped. Where are they coming from??

    Whilst I acknowledge that pet shops are not perfect, that there are numerous flaws, and that many points raised in the posts in this thread hold a fair dela of merit, I truly beleive we are barking up the wrong tree.

    In my opinion, we are far better off ensuring that ANYONE who breeds and or sells animals for a living does so under strict guidelines that are enforced. I for one feel that the transperancy of the pet shop industry is a far safer bet than the hidden world of puppy farms, bybs and registered breeders.

    In a similar vein to the idea "targeting the wrong end of the leash with BSL", I believe we are targeting the wrong puppy sellers in this issue.
    Last edited by Anne; 12-03-2009 at 08:43 AM.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  3. #13
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    Peta im so glad you have learnt from the forum. This is what we're all about, educating people, and if we can educate you, then you can educate others and it all counts

    Dorte, most animals here are all free range(cows, sheep, pigs). My grandfathers sheep have a very relaxed life. Are only handled when getting shorne(sp?), vaccinated/drenching, docking, tagging, and more recently being fed because of the draught. They live on over 1200 acres of land with plenty of access to water and shade. I can say these sheep have a very happy life. When they are handled, yes, they are handled quite rough. Dragged by the back legs, get knicks and cuts when get shorne, except they arn't dogs. When your dealing with 500 sheep at a time in the space of 8 hours, wool full of burs, in the sun, your back and hands really take the toll. You can't be babying them, you literally can't.
    What goes on in the truck is none of the farmers business. What goes on at the abbotoirs is none of the farmers business.

    As for chickens. I agree, the thought of caged eggs are absolutely disgusting. It might be more expensive, but if animals really are important to you, the money won't matter. I would, but I have my own free range chickens.

    Anne, just because they are better in comparison to a BYB, doesn't mean they are good. If you want a cheap, 'mutty' dog(or pure for that matter) I don't get why people decide pet shops over shelters.
    Education not Legislation

  4. #14

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    im in cat and dogs should not be in pet shops you got my vote im in

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Anne, just because they are better in comparison to a BYB, doesn't mean they are good. If you want a cheap, 'mutty' dog(or pure for that matter) I don't get why people decide pet shops over shelters.
    Yes, I agree they may not be 'good' but it is far easier to regulate them to be 'better' than what it will be to regulate breeders.

    Puppies have been sold in pet shops for many, many years. The first of 3 black Labradors that my family owned when I was little was purchased from a pet shop.

    The main reasons that people cite for believing pet shops should not sell puppies are stated here in various posts.

    These are;

    * Lack of training of staff in animal care and handling and breed differences.
    I do not know of any breeder who is trained to care for dogs. They gain that the knowledge through experience and perhaps guidance from family, friends and peers.

    In the pet shop industry, we have the power to ensure that employees are trained. We have that control to be able to insist on this. Those that are members of the PIAA already undergo this training and are encourgaed to do so.

    * Puppies kept in cages
    It is common for breeders to keep their dogs in runs or kennels. They don't get the same amount of interaction that you or I might give a dog that lives inside the family home.

    It is also common for people to crate their dogs in Australia while they are not home, and during the night. It is argued that this does not harm the dog. I don't think it is preferable, and unless it is long term, I don't consider it harmful either. Puppies in a breeders home may be placed in a puppy pen for the majority of the day too.

    * Puppies sold without proper assesment & ending up dumped in pounds
    As stated, this simply can't be the case in NSW as the greater proportion of dogs in our pounds are not microchipped.

    Further, the majority of breeders will sell puppies to people they have never met over the internet, or after speaking with them over the phone. Puppy buyers normally would go to the breeder to buy their puppy, the breeder does not go to their home to check them out. This is the same as a pet shop.

    I have met and spoken to people who have purchased dogs from breeders and from pet shops and I feel the dog is not suitable for them.

    * Puppies sold with health issues
    Can anyone seriously claim that unhealthy puppies are only sold through pet shops? Who bred them in the first place?

    * Impulse purchasing
    Impulsive purchases happen with rescues (the emotional pull when you see some poor little dog that has been abused and needs love), from breeders when they see a friend with a new puppy or they see an advert for a cute bouncy puppy and decide they want to buy it. I also don't beleive that impulsive purchases are as rampant as what is made out to be.

    Overall, I agree that many pet shops need to be looked at and things need to be changed to ensure that our dogs are proected.

    I firmly and strongly believe though that we waste vaulable time and resources in pursuing what I feel is the wrong end of the stick. We should be pouring our energy into the breeders of the dogs sold in pet shops, not the pet shops themselves. The puppy farms, the back yard breeders and the registered breeder who breed dogs without care for the future of the off spring or the care of the dogs they are using to breed with.

    What we do need desperately is an enquiry into where the problems really are and mainly, where do the dogs in pounds come from?

    Disclaimer - please note, when I use the term 'breeder' I am referring to anyone who mates two dogs to produce puppies.
    Last edited by Anne; 12-03-2009 at 10:05 AM.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    Yes, I agree they may not be 'good' but it is far easier to regulate them to be 'better' than what it will be to regulate breeders.

    Puppies have been sold in pet shops for many, many years. The first of 3 black Labradors that my family owned when I was little was purchased from a pet shop.

    The main reasons that people cite for believing pet shops should not sell puppies are stated here in various posts.

    These are;

    * Lack of training of staff in animal care and handling and breed differences.
    I do not know of any breeder who is trained to care for dogs. They gain that the knowledge through experience and perhaps guidance from family, friends and peers.

    In the pet shop industry, we have the power to ensure that employees are trained. We have that control to be able to insist on this. Those that are members of the PIAA already undergo this training and are encourgaed to do so.

    * Puppies kept in cages
    It is common for breeders to keep their dogs in runs or kennels. They don't get the same amount of interaction that you or I might give a dog that lives inside the family home.

    It is also common for people to crate their dogs in Australia while they are not home, and during the night. It is argued that this does not harm the dog. I don't think it is preferable, and unless it is long term, I don't consider it harmful either. Puppies in a breeders home may be placed in a puppy pen for the majority of the day too.

    * Puppies sold without proper assesment & ending up dumped in pounds
    As stated, this simply can't be the case in NSW as the greater proportion of dogs in our pounds are not microchipped.

    Further, the majority of breeders will sell puppies to people they have never met over the internet, or after speaking with them over the phone. Puppy buyers normally would go to the breeder to buy their puppy, the breeder does not go to their home to check them out. This is the same as a pet shop.

    I have met and spoken to people who have purchased dogs from breeders and from pet shops and I feel the dog is not suitable for them.

    * Puppies sold with health issues
    Can anyone seriously claim that unhealthy puppies are only sold through pet shops? Who bred them in the first place?

    * Impulse purchasing
    Impulsive purchases happen with rescues (the emotional pull when you see some poor little dog that has been abused and needs love), from breeders when they see a friend with a new puppy or they see an advert for a cute bouncy puppy and decide they want to buy it. I also don't beleive that impulsive purchases are as rampant as what is made out to be.

    Overall, I agree that many pet shops need to be looked at and things need to be changed to ensure that our dogs are proected.

    I firmly and strongly believe though that we waste vaulable time and resources in pursuing what I feel is the wrong end of the stick. We should be pouring our energy into the breeders of the dogs sold in pet shops, not the pet shops themselves. The puppy farms, the back yard breeders and the registered breeder who breed dogs without care for the future of the off spring or the care of the dogs they are using to breed with.

    What we do need desperately is an enquiry into where the problems really are and mainly, where do the dogs in pounds come from?

    Disclaimer - please note, when I use the term 'breeder' I am referring to anyone who mates two dogs to produce puppies.
    hay my mum is a registered breeder but we love our dogs

  7. #17
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    Roly is from a pet shop too. Bought for my 10th birthday by my parents.
    MY main problem with dogs and cats in pet shops is that these puppies come from BYB's and puppy-mills and we are supporting them and the pet shop for buying their animals.
    Here is a photo of Roly's front legs which are incredibly bowed (you could almost say deformed) and will result in severe arthritis with older age because of possibly being an inbred or just terrible breeding full stop.


    And its not the puppies themself, its what the puppies leave behind them when they leave their original breeding 'facility'. Its very hard to think about what his parents could have been like. If he was their 1st, 3rd, 5th of even her 7th litter. Its very likely she is now dead and his dad is still 'siring'.
    Anne have you read Mags sticky thread?
    Education not Legislation

  8. #18
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    Excuse his long nails too. Our groomer has given up on trimming him(he is literally impossible) and they grind themself away on the pavement.
    Education not Legislation

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Roly is from a pet shop too. Bought for my 10th birthday by my parents.
    MY main problem with dogs and cats in pet shops is that these puppies come from BYB's and puppy-mills and we are supporting them and the pet shop for buying their animals.
    Here is a photo of Roly's front legs which are incredibly bowed (you could almost say deformed) and will result in severe arthritis with older age because of possibly being an inbred or just terrible breeding full stop.
    Yes, I agree, but the issue even as you have stated was his breeding, not where he was purchased from. The breeder of this dog is the one that is responsible.

    Incidently, if I ever get off my butt and add some pics to my photobucket account, I'll show you a humdinger of deformed wrists. Cookie, a rescue I had in had the most acute case of splayed wrists I have ever seen in my life.


    And its not the puppies themself, its what the puppies leave behind them when they leave their original breeding 'facility'. Its very hard to think about what his parents could have been like. If he was their 1st, 3rd, 5th of even her 7th litter. Its very likely she is now dead and his dad is still 'siring'.
    Anne have you read Mags sticky thread?
    Agreed again, and once again, as you pointed out it is the breeder here who is doing wrong. It is the breeder who runs and owns the facility where the poor parents of these puppies are being abused. The puppy mercifully escapes this and spend a few weeks in a pet shop and then, with luck, goes to a loving and caring home. The breeder again is the issue.
    A pessimist sees the glass as half empty;
    An optimist sees the glass as half full;
    A realist just finishes the damn thing and refills it.

  10. #20
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    Loren it was me who related the story about my niece buying the Cavalier pup from the pet shop.

    She had grown up with a Cav and wanted one to raise with her own young family. I found a registered breeder who was selling limited register pups from sound parents for $500 each. On the way to visit the breeder she passed a pet shop and was sucked in by a mismarked black and tan Cavalier pup in the window. She paid $1100 for him. No papers, no microchip, just his first vaccination. Pup had one of the worst umbilical hernias I have seen. Pet shop said they would pay to have it surgically repaired at a later stage. Pet shop closed down three months later. The puppy also had entropion requiring surgical correction and slipping patella - both hind legs.

    Why did she pay more than double the price of a quality pup? Simply because she saw a cute little face in a pet shop window.

    A shop is not the place for any live animal. I never buy anything from any shop that sells live animals.

    Reasons not to buy a puppy or kitten from a pet shop.

    1. Going from breeder to new home is always a stressful time for a young animal. Going from breeder, to pet shop and then to new home increases the stress suffered by the animal. Three changes of diet and environment in a short space of time can create both health and temperament problems.

    2. Even if the puppies and kittens are vaccinated there are many other infections they can pick up when they are constantly handled by different people and exposed to other animals coming and going. No matter how clean a pet shop might be animals kept under shop conditions are more likely to suffer from disease than those who go directly from breeder to new home.

    3. Pet shop puppies and kittens are usually much more difficult to toilet train. Being forced to eat and defecate in the same small space is not a natural way to raise baby animals. The longer they stay in a pet shop situation the harder they will be to train later on.

    4. Staff in pet shops are usually young (cheaper wages) and most have little or no genuine knowledge of animals. They are not there to offer help and advice to potential pet owners. They are there to sell a product. After they have sold you the pup or kitten they usually talk you into buying all sorts of useless items to go with it. If you have problems with your new pet they don't want to know about it. Unlike a good breeder or an Animal Shelter once they have your money the animal is no longer their concern.

    5. Pet shops encourage impulse buying. Totally unsuitable pets purchased on impulse are the ones who end up in pounds and shelters when they are no longer cute and cuddly.

    6. Ban the sale of puppies and kittens in pet shops and you would cut the unwanted animal population in half in under 5 years.

    Just my thoughts off the top of my head. Feel free to edit.

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