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Thread: Ok, Who is This Ceasar Milan?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Im sure it does and can work, but there are better resources and tools that serve the same purpose in a more 'humane' way.
    I don't like choker chains either.
    Don't get me started on "choker chains". They got this "nickname" because people were using them incorrectly. "Correction chains" (their correct name) can only be used one way. If the dog walks on your left, when standing in front of the dog it should look like the letter P before slipping it over the head. If your dogs walks on your right, it should look like the letter q. If worn correctly, it corrects tight and then slips loose immediately. If worn incorrectly, it tightens but can not loosen again, hence the chocking.

    Uneducated owners/handlers also correct the dog too late in the dog's behaviour. They try to correct once the dog is at the end of it's lead choking itself, pulling away from the handler. This is a waste of time and is cruel to the dog. You must correct before the lead gets tight and allow it to release.

    There are two ideas behind the effectiveness of a correction chain.
    1. The sound of the metal links pulling across each other near the dogs ear is annoying to dogs. I guess similar to the annoying sound of nails on a blackboard.
    2. When the chain tightens for that half a second on the dogs neck, it presses on the carotid arteries (blood path to the brain) along the neck, cutting of circulation to the brain for half a second. This is not harmful to the dog, it just triggers a response in the body of the dog that it doesn't like, therefore it becomes a punishment.

    If used with positive reinforcement, it can be a powerful training tool to have.

    Think about it this way. You see all those people with their dogs on flat collars, saying how cruel it is to use a correction chain on a dog. I say this to you. What is more pleasant to a dog (or a human)? Having something tighten around it's neck for half a second, or having someone yank/jerk it sideways or backwards by the neck on a flat collar. This can cause major neck/spinal injuries, similar to whiplash. Now you tell me, what's more cruel??

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Hi all

    There is not much point addressing your replies to the opening poster (OP) because she has long gone and is unlikely to read them.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the data that backs up your claim, Pawfectionist. Though I agree that the e-collar can have its place, used correctly. Unfortunately - you can't compete in ANKC affiliated dog sports and use one in training. But it might be a better way for farmers to train dogs than their usual punishment methods.
    Completely agree. I'm not saying everyone should go out and buy an E-collar, I'm saying that they have their place in the dog training world.
    And they should definitely not be used by someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

  3. #43

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    I call them check chains because they "check" the dog when they are misbehaving.

    The way I use them is just a quick, sharp tug (not hard) then release.

    I tried them when training my pup but they didn't work for him, he much prefers and behaves better on paracord leads, but my mum shows hers in check chains only and they show beautifully.

    I personally don't like shock collars but I do agree that they can be a good training tool in the right hands. If I had a truly problem barker then I would think about using one. I have tried citronella and vibration collars on my boy to no avail, but my boy isn't a problem barker, just annoying to us (He barks when inside).
    Last edited by Crested_Love; 02-27-2012 at 02:08 AM.

  4. #44
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    Hey, i dont have the objections to a pinch collar that others seem to. providing the handler is qualified to use one. I have tried it on my neck, arm, etc. it does not hurt unless you pull, then it pinches. Its a aversive training method. So for purely positive reinforcers, its offensive.
    I train lose leash walking with an aversive. I wont move forward, whilst your pulling, so to remove the blockade to movement, (aversive) they have to return to my side just one step, before i'll walk again.
    I trained my very hostile rescue rottie with aversive. If he shut up and settled, i would walk away. Not all training has to be positive to be gentle.
    Ceasar Milan....
    Id use a pinch collar on him badly for free!
    The guys a idiot, training high risk strategies to novice trainers. A recipe for disaster. He ignores all messages from dogs "your stressing me out, i dont know what to do?" and keeps on going. Its cruel.
    At no point does he listen to what the dog is clearly telling him with body language.

    He reminds me of my milatary father "i will have obedience and respect, and i dont mind how i get it" what you get is fear driven behaviour, which is rather unpredictable and as for respect? Nah, i dont think so.

    These days, id happily alpha roll ceasar milan and my father, with a pinch collar lol

  5. #45
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    Well said, Bernie. And another big problem with his tv shows I find is that he never really explains why or exactly how he does it. It always amazes me when I hear people say that they follow his methods after watching his tv show and I wonder how on earth they figured out what to do from those snippets.

  6. #46
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    You guys must be watching a different show that me.

    I think he always explains why he is doing something...whether his reasoning is right or wrong is sometims questionable...
    Last edited by Lala; 02-27-2012 at 07:22 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lala View Post
    You guys must be watching a different show that me.

    I think he always explains why he is doing something...whether his reasoning is right or wrong is sometims questionable...
    But his 'why' explanations are always so general. Personally I cannot translate that into a "how do I deal with unwanted behaviour from my own dog" strategy. I find it hard to explain what I mean. (Bit tired today...)

    Someone told me his books are mainly him talking about himself.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    But his 'why' explanations are always so general. Personally I cannot translate that into a "how do I deal with unwanted behaviour from my own dog" strategy. I find it hard to explain what I mean. (Bit tired today...)

    Someone told me his books are mainly him talking about himself.
    They are very much about him and his life story. I actually find it quite interesting. I'm not after "how to train my dog" books so it didn't bother me reading a few.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I love 2 things in this world. Spandex and reyzor... not necessarily in that order.

  10. #50
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    I met Cesar when we were Parelli horsemanship Instructors, they did some stuff together....i actually am not keen on his shows, because people try to do what he does and i agree, there is not enough teaching and the dogs are often red-zone dogs, which should not be handled by most people.
    But watching him life, without a crew, just working with Rescue dogs was incredible...he has such timing and when he is just working with dogs and not on show, I found him quite amazing to watch over the weeks i was there. I have the same issue with Pat Parelli, he is also amazing to watch life, without a show audience. But I also find him too much of a show person and in for the $$$$'s, hence we are with them no longer.
    I wish i had Cesars timing.......And watching him with a totally unpredictable angry Pitt-bull, that just was brought to him from a shelter was amazing...........Again, people become show-men, sad they forget their origin and reasons for doing things, money and fame becomes everything
    Pets are forever

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