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Thread: Bit of a Delema. Your Thoughts?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Di_dee1 View Post
    I actually agree with Occy, lol. I have never felt that she dislikes me or judged me as a "bad person" and neither have I with her. I do not agree with her venomous way of disagreeing with what I am doing. I feel it is to her own detriment doing it this way and to the forum as a whole as it may turn newbies away, but I do respect her right to her opinions as I have the right to mine.
    I retract my comment regarding this and apologise! I still stand by my comments though that there are ways to say things and ways not to say things! No need to be nasty IMHO

    I spent 1/2 hour on a post and lost it...crap!

    Look Occy...we have a prefix and we intend to breed in 3-5 years time if our girl is any good to improve her bloodlines (which are very good). She is an "old-fashioned" looking Staffy that looks like the Terrier type. This is something we would like to continue seeing due to a fair bit of the showdogs nowadays looking more like the bulldog type than the terrier type. I agree 100% that there are millions of dogs in pounds etc. Some of them are from "registered breeders". The thing is...there are "registered breeders" and then there are registered ETHICAL breeders. Breeders who do it for the right reasons...whether or not you agree with those reasons. Breeders who take their time in finding the right family for their puppies...screening them...asking for references...breeding from the best stock etc. I refuse to justify why I might breed from my girl! If she contains the qualities a Staffordshire Bull Terrier is supposed to have...then a Champion quality male will be found to "service" her when she is 3-5 years old.

    The subject regarding desexing and early desexing is obviously a touchy subject. I will however investigate! To me it is not just about "bulking out"...it is also about making sure the puppies develop and grow healthy bones and growth plates. Our society's pets suffer from allergies...cancers...premature deaths...obesity etc etc etc. The lack of sex hormones might just play a role in this and I will try and find out. Does sex hormones have other uses in pets other than sex drive maybe? Does it help in the production of other hormones like growth hormones...antihistamines...immune system etc.

    When women have hysterectomies...they require hormone replacement treatment after. Why should that be any different in our pets for them to be healthy, happy and balanced? It didn't use to be common practice to desex our pets and still isn't in the country where I was born.

    I will try and ask my Vet (if he has time) tomorrow when I pick Sumo up from having been desexed. There must be some literature regarding this and will try and find it.

  2. #52
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    I have had a hysterectomy. If ovaries are left intact then the hormones are still excreted. In humans, anyway, we only need HRT if they are removed or go into surgical shock and shut down (as happened with my one remaining one when I was told it should function well)

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    I retract my comment regarding this and apologise! I still stand by my comments though that there are ways to say things and ways not to say things! No need to be nasty IMHO

    I spent 1/2 hour on a post and lost it...crap!

    Look Occy...we have a prefix and we intend to breed in 3-5 years time if our girl is any good to improve her bloodlines (which are very good). She is an "old-fashioned" looking Staffy that looks like the Terrier type. This is something we would like to continue seeing due to a fair bit of the showdogs nowadays looking more like the bulldog type than the terrier type. I agree 100% that there are millions of dogs in pounds etc. Some of them are from "registered breeders". The thing is...there are "registered breeders" and then there are registered ETHICAL breeders. Breeders who do it for the right reasons...whether or not you agree with those reasons. Breeders who take their time in finding the right family for their puppies...screening them...asking for references...breeding from the best stock etc. I refuse to justify why I might breed from my girl! If she contains the qualities a Staffordshire Bull Terrier is supposed to have...then a Champion quality male will be found to "service" her when she is 3-5 years old.

    The subject regarding desexing and early desexing is obviously a touchy subject. I will however investigate! To me it is not just about "bulking out"...it is also about making sure the puppies develop and grow healthy bones and growth plates. Our society's pets suffer from allergies...cancers...premature deaths...obesity etc etc etc. The lack of sex hormones might just play a role in this and I will try and find out. Does sex hormones have other uses in pets other than sex drive maybe? Does it help in the production of other hormones like growth hormones...antihistamines...immune system etc.

    When women have hysterectomies...they require hormone replacement treatment after. Why should that be any different in our pets for them to be healthy, happy and balanced? It didn't use to be common practice to desex our pets and still isn't in the country where I was born.

    I will try and ask my Vet (if he has time) tomorrow when I pick Sumo up from having been desexed. There must be some literature regarding this and will try and find it.
    If you ever go to write a long post - copy it before you click post - just in case...

    You can't use the excuse that women who have hystorectomy's need hormone replacements as that then becomes parallel to never desexing a female dog as it changes their hormones - my year with the wonderful Billie demonstrates otherwise.

    Cappy was desexed at 8 months - he died of cancer - he was 11

    Flash was desexed at 7 years - he died of cancer - he was 10

    Billie was desexed at 9 - she came with cancer - she died of a different cancer

    Sandy was desexed at 18 months - she was pts at age 14 - no cancer

    Billy was desexed at around 5 years old - he was about 13 when he was pts - he did not have cancer

    Barack was desexed at age 10 and died before his 11th birthday - he died of cancer related to his prostate/testicles

    Cappy and Barack were pure bred pedigree GSDs

    Flash and Billie were BYBs

    Billy was a GSP

    Sandy was a GSD x

    I can't see how their desexing at whatever age prevented or caused their cancers or not

    Would I desex my own pup at 8 weeks? No - but I would be buying a pup on an open register

    Id like to see more info on hormones and development though

  4. #54
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    Occy can I ask why all your dogs were de-sexed so late in life?
    Genuinly curious
    Education not Legislation

  5. #55
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    Ok - here goes lol

    Cappy was done at 8 months as I was hopeful his testicle would drop - it didn't - no good for showing - they went

    All the dogs aside from Barack were rescues and done when I got them.

    Barack was my childhood dog- back when ppl didn't desex - he was desexed when he started to develop cancerous changes - it gave him another year. Geeze he was a good dog! Grandson of one of the foundation dogs of the modern GSD in Aus.

    Anyhoo

  6. #56
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    Oh rightyo
    Education not Legislation

  7. #57

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    Occy ... build a bridge ... and get over it.

    Sorry peeps, but I'm so over this topic. I don't think there's ever going to be a "consensus of opinion" on this one.

  8. #58
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    every time I build a bridge I end up setting fire to them *stamps foot*

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Di_dee1 View Post
    Hubby has just come back from town, he talked about the pups.
    Two separate people on two separate times, one a male, one a female, both said I should have a price on the pups or people will think they are no good.

    THIS, IF I DO IT DOES NOT APPLY TO RIVER

    I know yes, getting Pretty and them to optimum condition, worming, other needs is expensive but one which I am lucky enough to be able to just do.

    Hmmmm, your thoughts?
    DO charge for the dog if only for the reason that it is human nature to value what you have paid for. I see too many dogs come through rescue who had "been handed on to a friend" at no cost and that friend then decides that the dog is therefore disposable. By all means desex and microchip them beforehand, then charge for the cost of this. That way there is no risk of these pups/dogs reproducing.
    SPR fosters:Rowland, Matrix, Mia, Arizona, Romeo, Wrinkles, George, Molly, Su Lin, Ellie, Charlie, Charlotte, Lulu, Montana http://www.sharpeirescue.com.au

  10. #60
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    Hi Occy

    AWL didn't seem to care a lot what I said or did. They asked some questions about how big my yard was and stuff, but did nothing to check. There was no followup by them. They offered 2 week free vet if I needed - but that place is a very long way from home and Frosty found car travel at the time - extremely traumatic.

    I was extremely frazzled myself. I'd gone there looking for a 6 mo "bitch" that turned out to be a male and already gone by the time I got there - despite me phoning them before I went out there. Not very helpful on their part. But I did really want a blue (no idea why, ok child hood fondness for blues, but I like the reds and the black and tans too), and there were two blue puppies, and I played with both, and talked to nobody while I did it. And asked one of the staff which one they'd choose, having pretty much already decided on the puppy that wanted to play with me, not the one that only wanted to go back to its concrete prison. They didn't / couldn't answer me any questions about Frosty's history.

    I can't remember if they asked me about exercise or training for the dog. Possibly not. Frosty was 10 weeks when I got her but there were a lot of farm dogs in both AWL and RSPCA that were between 6 and 18 months old. I figure some of them would be returns because the family that adopted them didn't expect such an energetic and demanding dog. Like they were told but they didn't understand what that meant.

    I'd forgotton what puppies were/are like. But I coped.

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