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Thread: Australia - Pedigree Dogs Exposed

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhound View Post
    When they start showing an interest in closing down puppy farms and banning the sale of live animals in pet shops I might think about taking them seriously.
    I heard and read comments like that from some years when ear cropping laws were being considered, then years later again when tail docking laws were being considered. As sort of point the finger elsewhere so as to deflect attention elsewhere.
    .

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    The culling issue is different to the mis-management of breeding and health issue. Has anyone stopped to think that the ridgeless ridgebacks are culled as there is no potential homes for them? I personally don't agree with culling at birth, but consider this and give me your thoughts:

    You have a high demand breed. Sometimes newborn pups show immediately a fault which you know will mean they do not comply with the breed standard requirements. You have limited space to keep these dogs in the manner that they deserve for their lifetime, and you can be pretty much assured that finding them a caring, responsible home will be next to impossible. Do you, A - put them to sleep; or B - let them survive?

    Breeders have a responsibility to not produce unhomeable dogs, which have the potential to suffer lack of care and homelessness. Part of this is health screening and well planned breeding in the first place, but breeding is never 100% predictable.

    Don't throw it on me personally, as I wouldn't cull "undesirable" newborns. But I am lucky to keep a breed that doesn't suffer major cosmetic faults, and are low demand anyway so are generally only bred when there is sufficient genuine interested and appropriate homes waiting. I would not hesitate for a moment to PTS a puppy that showed incurable health or physical problems.

    My problem with this documentary is not what it shows, because I know that not all is perfect in the dog world. But that it shows a very narrow view of breeders, and of breeds for that matter. How many breeds were actually featured? Less than 10?

    Many breeds currently look, act and have similar health to, what they have had for hundreds of years.

    Inbreeding is only ever a problem when done from stock that have inherent health problems. Arabian horses have been deliberately inbred for over 7 thousand years and remain one of the healthiest horse breeds on the planet. Speaking of horses, did you know that all thoroughbreds in the world are descended from just four founding males???? How's that for a gene pool. But are they all keeling over? No.

    Irresponsibility is breeding stock with health problems, as was displayed in this program. Unhealthy animals reproduce that, whether inbred or outcrossed. Inbreeding just concentrates a family health issue.

    But most breeders, and all good breeders, go to considerable expense and huge amounts of trouble to ensure the best health of their breeding stock. Most breeders are in it for the long run, and breeding bad stock cannot have any future for the survival of their chosen breed. This is what is is really about, being custodian of a breed. It means more than all the ribbons in the world.
    GSDs4Eva proves that the ridgeless(or semi ridgeless) are able to find homes. I know we have a huge problem with too many dogs, not enough homes, but it doesnt seem fair that a healthy puppy is culled because of something that really has nothing to do with the dog but how it looks. It shows the breeder doesnt really feel much of an attatchement to the puppies. But I understand where your coming from.
    Yes, I did know about the Thoroughbreds four founding stallions, I own a Thoroughbred. Check out his breeding, Im very proud of him Denzel Star Horse Pedigree
    Anyway, breeding a grandaughter to the grandfather is wrong, dog, horse, cat even chickens, blerrk, makes me sick
    Education not Legislation

  3. #43

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    How could I not take Mish. Just look at that face ....
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #44

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    In the UK the Rhodesian Ridgeback Club there pretty quickly took down their Code Of Ethics page from their website when they knew what the documentary contained, and for some time in it’s place was a message “for review”. The UK Kennel Club then implemented a policy that ALL Breed Clubs MUST adopt the Kennel Club’s Code Of Ethics, they had their reasons.

    In Australia some may wonder what is going on even with the Rhodesian Ridgeback Clubs in Australia. On reading the Victorian Rhodesian Ridgeback Club’s Code Of Ethics the following is mentioned, where some may wonder what this means, and keep in mind this is in the Code Of Ethics for that Club and the following from this link.
    Code of Ethics

    4. I will cull (humanely euthanasia):
    (i)Puppies with Dermoid Sinus. I will inform buyers of the Dermoid Sinus and how to detect it. Should a Dermoid Sinus be detected following sale of the puppy I will recommend euthanasia or neutering and take financial responsibility for surgical removal of the Dermoid Sinus(s).
    (ii)Ridgeless pups, Blue/grey pups, or any other colour of a cross disregard to the Standard. If I find this morally impossible I will desex the pups prior to placing them into homes and prior to 12 weeks of age.
    .

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy View Post
    I understand a bit of a typo regarding "neurological vet nurse". That person was Clare Rusbridge BVMS PhD DipECVN MRCVS RCVS and European Specialist in Veterinary Neurology. Her website is at this address.
    Clare Rusbridge - Veterinary-neurologist.co.uk Homepage
    .
    Oops, my bad. I guess I just remembered the neurological part.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    GSDs4Eva proves that the ridgeless(or semi ridgeless) are able to find homes. I know we have a huge problem with too many dogs, not enough homes, but it doesnt seem fair that a healthy puppy is culled because of something that really has nothing to do with the dog but how it looks. It shows the breeder doesnt really feel much of an attatchement to the puppies. But I understand where your coming from.
    Yes, I did know about the Thoroughbreds four founding stallions, I own a Thoroughbred. Check out his breeding, Im very proud of him Denzel Star Horse Pedigree
    Anyway, breeding a grandaughter to the grandfather is wrong, dog, horse, cat even chickens, blerrk, makes me sick
    It's true that imperfect pups can be pet-home placed successfully. But the huge dichotomy in this instance is that negatively hyped-up documentaries like this tar the public image of ALL registered breeders, thus reducing even further any potential demand for imperfect pet puppies...

    And people are appalled by inbreeding not for scientific reasons, but for moral ones. Animals don't share our morals however, and inbreeding is common in wild animals. If the wild stock that are subject to inbreeding are healthy it desn't pose any problems, as just as inbreeding can double up on bad stuff it also has the potential to double up on good - including health.

    One of my dogs is from a half sister/brother mating and she is healthier than many crossbreds, strong and beautiful.
    Last edited by Nattylou; 09-13-2009 at 08:04 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    The culling issue is different to the mis-management of breeding and health issue. Has anyone stopped to think that the ridgeless ridgebacks are culled as there is no potential homes for them? I personally don't agree with culling at birth, but consider this and give me your thoughts:

    You have a high demand breed. Sometimes newborn pups show immediately a fault which you know will mean they do not comply with the breed standard requirements. You have limited space to keep these dogs in the manner that they deserve for their lifetime, and you can be pretty much assured that finding them a caring, responsible home will be next to impossible. Do you, A - put them to sleep; or B - let them survive?

    Breeders have a responsibility to not produce unhomeable dogs, which have the potential to suffer lack of care and homelessness. Part of this is health screening and well planned breeding in the first place, but breeding is never 100% predictable.

    Don't throw it on me personally, as I wouldn't cull "undesirable" newborns. But I am lucky to keep a breed that doesn't suffer major cosmetic faults, and are low demand anyway so are generally only bred when there is sufficient genuine interested and appropriate homes waiting. I would not hesitate for a moment to PTS a puppy that showed incurable health or physical problems.

    My problem with this documentary is not what it shows, because I know that not all is perfect in the dog world. But that it shows a very narrow view of breeders, and of breeds for that matter. How many breeds were actually featured? Less than 10?

    Many breeds currently look, act and have similar health to, what they have had for hundreds of years.

    Inbreeding is only ever a problem when done from stock that have inherent health problems. Arabian horses have been deliberately inbred for over 7 thousand years and remain one of the healthiest horse breeds on the planet. Speaking of horses, did you know that all thoroughbreds in the world are descended from just four founding males???? How's that for a gene pool. But are they all keeling over? No.

    Irresponsibility is breeding stock with health problems, as was displayed in this program. Unhealthy animals reproduce that, whether inbred or outcrossed. Inbreeding just concentrates a family health issue.

    But most breeders, and all good breeders, go to considerable expense and huge amounts of trouble to ensure the best health of their breeding stock. Most breeders are in it for the long run, and breeding bad stock cannot have any future for the survival of their chosen breed. This is what is is really about, being custodian of a breed. It means more than all the ribbons in the world.
    Excellent post Nattylou.

    I've just been looking in an old dog book of mine dated 1879. A lot of the dogs would not look out of place in a show ring today. This includes some of the Bassett Hounds and at least one of the Pugs. The working Dachshunds had the same long body we see today although many had very bad fronts and some looked as if they had suffered from rickets as pups.

    A lot of people don't realise that pedigree dog breeding in the UK is a bit different to dog breeding in Australia. In many breeds it is much more of a business than it is here.

    Pedigree dog ownership in the UK is around 70%. In Australia it is around 30%.

    In the UK anyone can walk in off the street and apply for a kennel prefix. In Australia you have to sit an exam before the ANKC will grant a prefix and the right to breed pedigree dogs.

    Health testing is much more common in Australia than in the UK. The majority of breeders health test because they genuinely care about their breed.

    If a breeder doesn't health test, don't buy a puppy from them. Simple. There is the odd rotten apple in every walk of life. I still firmly believe you have a better chance of getting a healthy long lived dog from a good breeder than from a pet shop window.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Anyway, breeding a grandaughter to the grandfather is wrong, dog, horse, cat even chickens, blerrk, makes me sick

    As I said before, my 17 year old Pug is the product of a grandfather to grandaughter mating. I spoke to the owner of two of her litter mates a couple of years ago and both were still alive at 15. They could still be alive now at 17 for all I know. Not a bad life span for Pugs or any dog for that matter. It was a very carefully planned mating and I can see nothing sick about it.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhound View Post
    Excellent post Nattylou.

    I've just been looking in an old dog book of mine dated 1879. A lot of the dogs would not look out of place in a show ring today. This includes some of the Bassett Hounds and at least one of the Pugs. The working Dachshunds had the same long body we see today although many had very bad fronts and some looked as if they had suffered from rickets as pups.
    Cheers Deerhound. 1879 is pretty good for photos!

    Just 'cause I love photos, here's a comparison: one of my favourites from 1907 - I have it hanging on the wall at home - compared to my girl - hideous inbred thing that she is!




  10. #50
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    Both beautiful girls and very similar. I love Borzoi. Not as good as Deerhounds of course but close.

    I have a passion for old photos, especially of dogs. Canine history is something I am very interested in.

    Sadly there are no photos in The Illustrated Book of the Dog but very good illustrations. A lovely one of the Greyhound family. You have probably seen it. Ranging from the Italian Greyhound to the Deerhound. The Saluki is called a Persian Greyhound and the Borzoi is a Siberian Wolfhound. The poor old Whippet or Snap Dog is not included in the Greyhound family for some reason and doesn't even warrant an illustration. Perhaps because the Whippet was a very working class dog and the rest of the Sighthounds were aristocrats?
    Last edited by Deerhound; 09-13-2009 at 09:58 PM.

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