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Thread: Where do we stand?

  1. #1
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    Default Where do we stand?

    We have an issue with people coming onto our property (sometimes invited, sometimes not invited) then walking around the side (straight past the front door, sometimes opening a gate on the way)... and then opening the gate into the backyard and walking straight in with Koda despite him barking his head off at them and (depending on the person) growling at them. Most people Koda gets over it and will accept them, however there are some that it takes him longer to come around with and there are a select few that he absolutely despises!

    If you ask me, you'd have to be insane to walk around to the back of someone's property uninvited, and then ignore the fact there is a very grumpy dog barking at you and just open the gate and walk right in... but for some reason... people do.

    Koda is not a vicious dog, but it scares me when people do this because Koda can sometimes be a bit unpredictable and sometimes no one is around to get control of him.

    So I have some questions...

    1. Theoretically if someone walked in the yard uninvited without having spoken to anyone who lives here to tell us that they're here, and Koda bit them... where would we stand?

    2. If they walked in the yard and we knew they were here (perhaps they were doing work on the farm and they came up to the house to use the bathroom... so they're not trespassing) and the same situation happened.... where would we stand with that?

    3. How would having signage on the gate make a difference to where we stand on the matter? What would be the best wording to have?

    Most of the signs I see around say 'Beware of dog, enter at your own risk'... I think the beware of dog part is okay, but I feel like saying 'enter at your own risk' is implying that they can enter if they want to.... rather than something firm like 'Beware of dog, do not enter'...

    I dunno.... its a difficult situation to be in... I just want to do whatever I can to stop anyone (human or dog) getting hurt.

  2. #2
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    Can you put a padlock on the gate into the backyard? When I lived in suburbia I padlocked the gate into the backyard. Living on my farm I padlock the front gate to the property because people have come in uninvited and let sheep and dogs out by not shutting the gates they opened. Yes I have had people walk in the gate to my yard despite my whole team of working dogs barking at them. Weird.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    Can you put a padlock on the gate into the backyard? When I lived in suburbia I padlocked the gate into the backyard. Living on my farm I padlock the front gate to the property because people have come in uninvited and let sheep and dogs out by not shutting the gates they opened. Yes I have had people walk in the gate to my yard despite my whole team of working dogs barking at them. Weird.
    If it was up to me, I'd padlock the gate. But my Dad is constantly going through that gate just to move from one end of the farm to the other... he gets annoyed enough about having the gate shut and having to move the latch to open it, let alone having to unlock a padlock and lock it again... He wouldn't tolerate padlocking that gate unfortunately...

    We've tried to think if there is any kind of lock system that is quick and easy to open for my dad, but not easy (or perhaps not possible) to open for strangers. Perhaps something that is deceptively simple, so unless you know how to use it, you wouldn't be able to get in... I don't really know if something along those lines even exists though... A lock with a pin number seems a bit overkill for just a farm gate :/ That probably costs a fortune anyway, so not an option.

  4. #4
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    Maybe you could devise a catch that is foot operated and the foot pedal is a bit out of sight - and have a decoy latch at the top. So Dad can get through as fast as he likes but anyone trying to undo the decoy latch gets nowhere. I'm thinking something a bit like an upside down pool gate latch. Where the mechanism is largely hidden inside a pipe (eg drain pipe), you step on the pedal and a bolt is pulled back so the gate will open. The latch would still need to be in the middle of the gate or top and bottom, not just the bottom or the interloper will just think it's stuck at the bottom and break it.

    And a cute picture of Koda running around with a flanny wrapped hand (stuffed rigger glove) would probably help. Actually that would make a very cute toy for the back yard. Sleeve of flanney with a rigger glove stitched into the end and the whole lot stuffed with rags. And if you can get a red biro to explode on it or use an animal sacrifice... (except dogs would probably eat anything with real blood on it).

    something like this maybe
    The Toolbox: Foot-Operated, Self-Locking Gate Latch

    In SA and some other states... if a dog bites an intruder in the process of defending property - the law is on the dog's side.

    A "no trespass" sign and "visitors please go to front door" might help.

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  6. #6
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    1. Theoretically if someone walked in the yard uninvited without having spoken to anyone who lives here to tell us that they're here, and Koda bit them... where would we stand?
    These people are called trespassers on private property. They are breaking the law. Press charges for trespass is an option. So long as it is ON the dogs property, the dog is allowed to gaurd/bite intruders. It is deemed to be defending its owner/property. Can escape the dangerous dog list, with this defending owner/property. Or if the dog has other "reason to attack" < such as been abused by the person and you can prove it. Trespass is a legal reason for your dog to attack.

    2. If they walked in the yard and we knew they were here (perhaps they were doing work on the farm and they came up to the house to use the bathroom... so they're not trespassing) and the same situation happened.... where would we stand with that?
    You would be liable and negligent for allowing persons into a dangerous situation without protecting them. You are responsible for visitors safety. BY containing a dog that might attack. Failure to do so, knowing your dog may, is negligent.

    3. How would having signage on the gate make a difference to where we stand on the matter? What would be the best wording to have?
    Any bog standard sign of dog on premises will do. There is a myth, that putting up such a sign, then makes the dog owner liable for bitten intruders. Not so, but gas man, post man etc must be able to perform their duties safe from the dog, so if visitor has a tannoy system, where they call you, you contain the dog, then allow entry, that is what you are supposed to do. If the postie has to lean in/over your perimeter, into the at risk of bite zone, to deliver mail, you are liable. So if the opening to the mail box is on street side, so dog cant bite, that's what is required.
    A bit like my dogs on the Ute. they must not be allowed to lean over/out of the trailer. Biting any hand that passes the invisable perimeter is permitted. As they are gaurding my property, the ute, and the shopping in the back trailer with the dog. Its a rare idiot or a child that tries this usually. The dogs are not vicious, they give plenty of warning, put your arm in, and you may not get it back. They are very likely to stop barking and lick the person, but the passer by does not know this, and they certainly dont look friendly with all their carrying on.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    1.
    A bit like my dogs on the Ute. they must not be allowed to lean over/out of the trailer. Biting any hand that passes the invisable perimeter is permitted. As they are gaurding my property, the ute, and the shopping in the back trailer with the dog. Its a rare idiot or a child that tries this usually. The dogs are not vicious, they give plenty of warning, put your arm in, and you may not get it back. They are very likely to stop barking and lick the person, but the passer by does not know this, and they certainly dont look friendly with all their carrying on.[/I]
    I would agree with most of what you say except perhaps this about passing the invisible perimeter. If you have a dog that you know might bite riding on your ute, I think you would likely be liable in most situations. A child may try and pat the dog or someone might trip and put their hand on the side of your tray to steady themselves. The most likely situation is a child and I think this would get you into real hot water if the child got bitten.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    2. If they walked in the yard and we knew they were here (perhaps they were doing work on the farm and they came up to the house to use the bathroom... so they're not trespassing) and the same situation happened.... where would we stand with that?
    You would be liable and negligent for allowing persons into a dangerous situation without protecting them. You are responsible for visitors safety. BY containing a dog that might attack. Failure to do so, knowing your dog may, is negligent.
    Koda is always contained to our backyard which is a very small, fully fenced portion of the land we have, and quite out of the way... meaning no one NEEDS to go in there other than us. The front door is easily accessible to anyone, in fact you have to walk straight past the front door and around the house to get to the backyard.

    So Koda is always contained... people do not have to go anywhere near him to reach the house... but a select few people seem to think they need to go to the back door rather than the front door for some reason, so they just walk right in with Koda.

    My point is, these people do not have to go near the dog at all... but they do for some crazy reason...

    We're gonna put up a "Beware of dog, enter at your own risk" sign... hopefully that will be enough to stop these people choosing to waltz right in the yard uninvited... but who knows...

    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Any bog standard sign of dog on premises will do. There is a myth, that putting up such a sign, then makes the dog owner liable for bitten intruders. Not so, but gas man, post man etc must be able to perform their duties safe from the dog, so if visitor has a tannoy system, where they call you, you contain the dog, then allow entry, that is what you are supposed to do. If the postie has to lean in/over your perimeter, into the at risk of bite zone, to deliver mail, you are liable. So if the opening to the mail box is on street side, so dog cant bite, that's what is required.
    Again, the backyard is very out of the way from anyone who visits our place. No one other than my family needs to go anywhere near there. Most visitors don't even go near Koda. As I said before, the biggest issue we have is a select few people who insist on walking PAST the front door to go to the back door in the backyard without having asked anyone...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Maybe you could devise a catch that is foot operated and the foot pedal is a bit out of sight - and have a decoy latch at the top. So Dad can get through as fast as he likes but anyone trying to undo the decoy latch gets nowhere. I'm thinking something a bit like an upside down pool gate latch. Where the mechanism is largely hidden inside a pipe (eg drain pipe), you step on the pedal and a bolt is pulled back so the gate will open. The latch would still need to be in the middle of the gate or top and bottom, not just the bottom or the interloper will just think it's stuck at the bottom and break it.

    And a cute picture of Koda running around with a flanny wrapped hand (stuffed rigger glove) would probably help. Actually that would make a very cute toy for the back yard. Sleeve of flanney with a rigger glove stitched into the end and the whole lot stuffed with rags. And if you can get a red biro to explode on it or use an animal sacrifice... (except dogs would probably eat anything with real blood on it).

    something like this maybe
    The Toolbox: Foot-Operated, Self-Locking Gate Latch

    In SA and some other states... if a dog bites an intruder in the process of defending property - the law is on the dog's side.

    A "no trespass" sign and "visitors please go to front door" might help.
    Interesting gate idea, I like it! I'll speak to the family and see what we can come up with!

  10. #10
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    We had exactly the same problem. Our house sits at the back of the property, so no front yard. Our 'beware of the dog' sign had no effect whatsoever and people kept on just walking in. Nero wouldn't attack anyone if left alone. But he puts on a pretty darn good show and I'm worried about what people do when he barks and lunges at them. And you never know what some idiot would like dog whisperer comes up with... I couldn't guarantee that Nero behaves himself in that case.

    We're getting NBN installed and these people kept on walking around the property unannounced so I put up below sign and it worked fine. Nobody enters our yard anymore. No NBN people, no Jehovas witness (yeah!), no couriers... In fact a few people have actually commented and thanked me for the warning. So maybe getting a bit more drastic with signage could work for you too?

    NBN2.jpg

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