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Thread: mutts and bitzas vs pedigree dogs, responsible breeding

  1. #1
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    Default mutts and bitzas vs pedigree dogs, responsible breeding

    This is a thread for discussing what is or isn't responsible breeding

    We clearly need the thread.

    Personally I just want the breeder - to do some health checks and think about what dogs they're putting together to make puppies, and to think about how many actual homes they would have for the puppies, ie why would anyone want another staffy cross when there are squillions of unwanted bad tempered ones out there already. A breeder also needs to be able to take time with the puppies in their first weeks of life to make sure they learn good doggy manners and people manners.

    I'm also noticing a bit of griping and poking from Pedigree breeders - saying nobody else is responsible when I can point you at quite a few ANKC pedigree breeders who don't get even close to my idea of responsible. And there are people into "adopting" dogs from pounds who might otherwise be PTS - saying that all pedigree breeders are bad.

    I have a mutt herding dog from the AWL and I really don't like it when someone might suggest that my dog is some how less valuable or able because of that.

    But I also don't like it when someone suggests that all ANKC pedigree breeders are bad.

    I also think a well planned cross breeding can be good too. Just because the dog is of more than one breed heritage doesn't make it automatically bad. Or the breeder wrong.

    Think about what has happened with the Dalmatian breed - they needed to outcross for the survival of their breed. It was carefully planned and eventually open - not too secret...

    You also have to think about problems with inbreeding if every person that wants the champion stud poodle in their lines - then there are no lines to mix that don't have that dog and if that dog has some hidden problems - they will show up in the puppies...

  2. #2
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    I couldn't agree with you more Hyacinth!

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    I think this subject has been done to death...there will always be people who breed just for the money... the pounds and shelters will still be full because no one gives a stuff.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  4. #4

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    I think it is a gross oversimplification to say ANKC breeders are good not ANKC breeders are bad.

    it has to be assessed on a individual breeder basis. as I understand the ANKC has zero input into quality of dogs, somehow that is left to the breed clubs and there is enough factual evidence that generally speaking breed clubs in fact have a long history of doing the opposite of what is good for the breed. a poster here a few weeks ago posted some articles about a welfare officer in the GSD club who eventually resigned because the GSD club (Victoria I think) refused to take any action against breeders who were just glorified puppy millers having nothing at all to do with their dogs after the point of sale.

    it would seem the ANKC and the breed clubs only agenda is to get bigger and richer with more membership. if that means they have to demand hip tests then they demand hip test, most of the health checks are a backlash from negative public opinion, so in essence it is damage control they were forced into with a positive outcome for dogs fortunately.

    OTOH puppy millers are mostly legal operators, they supply food, water and shelter which is all the law asks.

    I know unregistered breeders that call their dogs names like "rates" cos the dogs only purpose is to make a couple litters a year to pay the rates, sick but true. they sell unpapered dogs often from papered parents at the markets and in the sunday classifieds. they usually have no health records and sell dogs often from the same lines as ANKC breeders but at half the price - people buy them.

    breeders breed dogs to sell, they do whatever the market will accept, that simple.

    the breeders I support are small time hobby breeders that actively work their dogs, have day jobs (don't rely on puppy sales for money), are great trainers, have impeccable knowledge of their own lines, health test, respect the breed's purpose and always keep back a pup or two in every litter to see the results of their own breeding's....etc. some are registered breeders some aren't, some have papered dogs, some don't, some breed purebreds some will cross with whatever they need to compensate for a fault and usually cross back to the main breed in the next generation.

    customers are the only ones that can solve the problems, not the ANKC, not the government or RSPCA. only customers that make the effort to educate themselves and are willing to pay a fair price will fix the problem.

    I blame the greeders equally as I blame the purchasers for enabling them thru ignorance.



    these type of threads are always of value as new people are always coming into dog ownership.

  5. #5
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    Dogman

    If you'd not had anything to say about the subject - I would not have started the thread.

    there will always be people who breed just for the money... the pounds and shelters will still be full because no one gives a stuff.
    Ah but it's not too hard to make dog breeding less profitable ie actually enfoce the age and microchip rules... and then include some sort of people and dog hours with puppies along with the health checks. Pretty soon the only people who want to do do it are doing it for the love.

    ANKC is currently a big toothless tiger as far as enforcing their rules go. They can't afford to fight the big Pedigree puppy mills in the courts, even if they were right and could prove it. Somehow this has got to change otherwise their only value is in keeping track of competitions and winners. In all the dog sports, not just conformation.

    And their pedigree or desex rule for agility gives the independent agility competitions good support given the current research about sport dogs and bone development and early desex.

    A lot could be done to educate the public about puppies. It amazes me that all the lifestyle programs do the opposite - so even our former PM (and the current one) have puppy mill specials. Even Yappy hour tv promotes the poodle crosses, without question, at the same time as they do interviews with rescues that have dogs saved from puppy mills. It's definitely conflicted.

  6. #6
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    Hyacinth,

    I think you're a little confused...I don't recall mentioning anything about this... you started this thread.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

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    I started the thread to stop you sniping in the other thread. You had a lot to say on the subject there. You care about the quality of your dogs, you're always saying stuff about the decline of the breed...

    here's a good place to say something constructive about what can be done to fix it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I started the thread to stop you sniping in the other thread. You had a lot to say on the subject there. You care about the quality of your dogs, you're always saying stuff about the decline of the breed...

    here's a good place to say something constructive about what can be done to fix it.
    Snipping...when someone gets a GSD pup or is thinking about getting one I warn them of the health problems this wonderful breed is plagued with...to save them the heartache that I went through...what's wrong with that ?

    Of cause I have a lot to say on this subject...I've had three GSDs with serious health issues including cancer which isn't a coincidence don't you think.

    The breeder is responsible for the quality of the dogs...not me and when you get a dog with health problem that can occur months after you buy the pup...do you really think the breeder cares. Write a letter to Dogs NSW to complain and what do they say..."because what the dog has is treatable the breeder has done nothing wrong" and that includes many many health problems...do you think anything is going to change.

    So what do we do about this...the answer is clear...don't buy this breed again which is exactly what I intend to do...is that good enough for you.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  9. #9

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    "So what do we do about this...the answer is clear...don't buy this breed again which is exactly what I intend to do...is that good enough for you."

    what are you saying here, that you will not buy a gsd again because of the health issues you have experienced???

    health issues are in every line of every dog breed, HD is in EVERY single line of GSD. this is not a reason to abandon the breed/s, it is a reason to hold breeders to a higher standard.

    for the record the GSD has only formally had hip testing for a very small part of the breed history, just because a pedigree shows good hips for a few generations does not mean it is not there, sure things can be minimised but there is no such thing as HD free lines.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by muttboy View Post
    "So what do we do about this...the answer is clear...don't buy this breed again which is exactly what I intend to do...is that good enough for you."

    what are you saying here, that you will not buy a gsd again because of the health issues you have experienced???

    health issues are in every line of every dog breed, HD is in EVERY single line of GSD. this is not a reason to abandon the breed/s, it is a reason to hold breeders to a higher standard.

    for the record the GSD has only formally had hip testing for a very small part of the breed history, just because a pedigree shows good hips for a few generations does not mean it is not there, sure things can be minimised but there is no such thing as HD free lines.
    How many GSDs have you owned ?
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

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