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Thread: Kelpie x beagle

  1. #11
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    For Moff

    If you can tell us a bit more about what kind of puppy you'd like - we might be able to point you in the right direction. If you don't mind gambling on a mixed breed... there's
    petrescue.com.au

    If you want a working dog - there's "Australian working dog rescue" on facebook.

    Beware of facebook rescue groups that try to make you go get the dog out of the pound so it doesn't get PTS. Puppies don't get PTS because they are always easy to find homes for.

    Some rescues are better than others. Some pounds and shelters are better than others even ones under the same "umbrella" eg not all RSPCA shelters are the same, not all AWL shelters are the same.

    The ACT pound system has a very good record for getting dogs that end there back in their original homes or rehomed without PTS. Not so good with cats and kittens - there's just way too many of them and so few are micro chipped. No pound / shelter is great with rehoming cats sadly.

    But there is a system for getting nearly 100% of dogs in shelters and pounds in to foster care or rehomed... it involves taking dogs out to meet would be dog owners - away from the shelter environment - which is traumatic for the dog and the humans. I heard a radio story about it - some of the shelters in the USA are rehoming all suitable dogs ie the ones that are friendly.

  2. #12
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    There are many reasons why dogs end up homeless.

    In the ACT - they found that most of the dogs that end up there - just ran away from home. If the dog has a microchip with current details - they almost always can return it. Every now and again the family can't handle owning a Houdini dog or just can't be bothered but mostly the dog goes home.

    Sometimes owners can't afford to keep a dog - if they lost their job or got injured and couldn't look after the dog or got too old and needed to go into a home and couldn't keep a dog.

    There are other excuses but less common - like being posted os or interstate and not wanting to take the dog with them or just treating dog like a disposable thing like furniture but that's less common than the Houdini dogs...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymatejack View Post
    Most dogs I meet and know at the beach are crossbreeds and they're fantastic lovely dogs that anyone would be happy to own. The question I'm raising is, if we culled every dog in a shelter today and changed the rules such that people could only buy from properly policed registered breeders, how many dogs lives would be saved in the future? It's a theoretical question in reality cause I don't see anyone having the balls to do it, but whats better, 10,000 dogs killed today and close to none in the future, or 10,000 dogs today, of which probably 5,000 will be culled anyway and another 100,000 killed over the next few years. Ya gotta take the emotion out of it and think about the realities ... even though those realities are really just theoretical
    The problem you have is it would cost a lot of resources to police it. The other question is what is a properley registered breeder. My neighbours for example breed their own working dogs and other farmers in the neighbourhood purchase them. There is no registration, the dogs are selected on working ability in local consitions. Agility and other sporting folk will also sometimes choose to breed their top dogs after screening them for relevant genetic conditions. They choose to breed their exceptional dogs that have proven themslves. This would be lost under a system that chooses just to breed dogs based on if they conform to a certain physical standard. I think it is a difficult one. I personally prefer to buy puppies from proven dogs in sporting or working fields regardless of if they are from a registered breeder or not.

  4. #14

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    But that attitude promotes breedism. Poor practices have nothing to do with breed or lack of specific breed. Its practices we should be focusing on and thats going to be ineffective as long as practices are taught to be specific to pedigrees.

    If good practice was conditional on pedigrees, we wouldn't be seeing so many turned away from pedigree dogs for so many very valid reasons.

    Pedigree breeders can be very good, very bad and anywhere in between. So can cross breeders.
    We see better results on average from pedigree breeders, yes, but thats not because they have papers.

    Its more to do with goals and purpose attached to a breeding undertaken. And goals and purpose are discouraged and supressed outside of a registry system by the registries themselves.
    Last edited by Strange fruit; 03-17-2015 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #15
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    That's where the responsibility needs to legally fall back on the breeder.
    So when someone gets unexpectedly taken ill and can't look after their dog any more - how is the breeder supposed to take responsibility for that?

    I do know some breeders will take dogs back and rehome them - but breeders don't live forever either.

    I know two who have died young of cancer - not fun but they had to find homes for every dog they had and they can't possibly do anything for the new homes now.

    We will always need shelters and rescues. We could substantially reduce the number of dogs that are euthanased by making it easier for them to find new forever (as best anyone knows forever) homes.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymatejack View Post
    I absolutely know where you're coming from, I grew up on a farm and all our working dogs came from either my pop who either bred them himself or got them from other old time farmers or were from litters of our own dogs. I do believe that there's someone out there smart enough to make a law that covers both pets and working dogs - ok, it's probably not the current bunch of muppets or the likely next lot of muppets, but surely there's a way around this? There has to be a way, or we're just gonna keep the same old system that see thousands of dogs every year PTS. I'm open to ideas, all I know is the current system isn't working and will never stop the endless flow of dogs on the green mile

    EDIT : As far as resources for policing goes, how much money do you reckon it costs to keep the thousands of dogs there are atm in shelters? Imagine that money put into policing breeders!
    Yes there should be someone smart enough but a lot of working breeders got caught up in the new Victorian laws and had to campaign heavily for some change. One law was that you cant breed a male dog after 6 yo. The idea with working dogs is that you prove them well and truly before breeding them. Also initially working wasnt considered a form or exercise and enrichment, so you could work your dog all day and then you had to play with it. lol There was all sorts of other stipulations that were probably more targetted at puppy mills but were truly ridiculous for working dog breeders. People with 2 dogs or less could do what they darn well liked, which is fine for people breeding for specific purposes but the family pet could be bred ad nauseum.

    As to resources, alot of resources that go into rescue are from donations. I know many people who donate and they have fundraising and private sponsorship and there are also many volunteers. Volunteers are often the backbone of rescue. I would think very little is from government funding which would be required if there was a lot of official paperwork.

    It is complicated and no one seems to be able to sort it. I think things work better in European countries because it has been like that for a long time and they probably have a different entrenched attitudes.

  7. #17
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    20 dogs arrived at the Dogs refuge home of WA yesterday. Pretty shocking when you think about it. 10 of those dogs that arrived at the shelter were from a regional shire. I really dont understand people most of the time.

  8. #18

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    what about a nation wide hold on breeding and selling all dogs legally until the pounds and rescues are empty (like 1-2years) unless you have a dam good reason to breed very special dogs for very special work. then make owning a dog more expensive and more difficult. I don't see that registered breeders are any better or worse than BYB, there are good and bad in both.

    I bought a dog from an unregistered breeder, a better quality breeder you will not find.

    puppy mills as I understand it are all registered.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by muttboy View Post
    I bought a dog from an unregistered breeder, a better quality breeder you will not find.

    puppy mills as I understand it are all registered.
    The registrations that are talked about in this thread are if you are a breeder registered with the Australian Kennel Club (ANKC) and are breeders of pedigree dogs and adhere to a code of ethics set by that organisation. This is different very different from being registered by the council to be allowed to breed dogs on a premises.

    A good breeder whether they are registered or not will pay strict attention to making sure all the relevent genetic health testing is done on their breeding dogs and this information should come with your puppy to let you know that they are clear of certain genetic diseases particular to various breeds. This includes having a screening program of hip and elbow dysplasia.

    Muttboy if your breeder is good quality you will have a certificate from your breeder telling you what genetic diseases your dog is free of and you will have copies of the hip and elbow scores of the parents.

    I think most ANKC breeders are ethical but not always. My problem is that I dont buy dogs my puppies from ANKC registered breeders because I need working dogs and these are often bred outside any registration system. You can apply for registration of a dog with a working association by having them assessed by an experienced accredited stockman. You can buy working dogs from registered working breeders but there are many working dogs bred outside any registration system.

    I think you would have to come up with a system based on ethics rather than just pedigree dogs. You would also have to have a system in place for working dogs although I am not sure how you deal with farm dogs sold to pet homes in suburbia. Not sure how you deal with people breeding the family pet either.

    I suspect that education of the public perhaps in schools etc would also need attention. Same with care and training. Perhaps prospective owners need to do mandatory training of the basics like you do for a skippers ticket for recreational boats these days. Some theory and some practical. A dog owning ticket.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 03-19-2015 at 09:44 PM.

  10. #20

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    I disagree that because someone is a licensed breeder that means they are automatically ethical, do all health checks and are producing quality dogs. please educate me to what exactly the code of conduct from the ANKC is and how it enforces it.

    your claims are unsubstantiated and imo marketing hype that pure-bred breeders like to promote.

    I am not saying licenced breeders are all unethical or low quality, ii am saying that because they are licenced does not mean they are.

    just like BYB.

    as far as I know most pet shops are mainly supplied by puppy mills which are legal operations, food, shelter and water...that is the only requirement.

    I know in the states that many puppy mills of the most absurd scale of mass production are completely legal.

    you might want to define what a quality dog is as well if you associate licenced breeders with quality.

    I am honestly not sure of the facts and hope I made it clear what is my opinion but do licenced breeders have mandatory health HD, ED, DV ..... tests, where is the list that must follow, I really want to see this.


    I hope you are right and I am wrong.

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