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Thread: Why the hate on crossbreeds?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post

    So it's quite common on farms for a farmer to think - hmm, this dog is really great at this and this other dog is really great at that, lets put them together and see if we can get a good combination from the puppies. If there is a litter of 8 puppies, two might have the combined qualities that the farmer wants and he'd have to drown the rest. But that is less acceptable today when we're more aware of animals having feelings.

    .
    Some breeders of top quality working dogs will only breed two dogs together if they are both strong in the traits they need for the very reason above. You could get most of the litter with the combination of weaker traits if you don't. So if you want a good casting dog you need to breed two dogs with good casts. It requires a good knowledge of what you are trying to achieve to minimise the probability of poor quality pups that can end up put down or in inappropriate homes.


    This could apply to any breeding program. Breeding is not something I would ever attempt because I believe it does take a lot of knowledge. My reading on the breeding of high quality working dogs has certainly shown me that. Sure potluck can produce nice dogs but it also has many risks.

  2. #52
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    I have learned that you can not change the world, only fix our little part of it so being true to ourselves is the way to go, whether buying pure breeds or taking in a rescue, deciding to get a farmer bred dog, whatever.

    Debating on a small forum within ourselves is not going to change a damn thing re BYBs or how puppy mills, breeders who breed only for looks with or without health testing etc operate. Only actions can do this in the wider world, eg supporting pet shops that feature rescue dogs rather than selling pups in them, help in local efforts with awareness, petitions in local areas about puppy farms in local media and above all, teaching our kids what we feel is the right way to feel and act on responsible pet ownership.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    I dont agree that the ONLY way to get a quality dog, is to get a pedigree registered breeder.
    As ive met many. I have a lovely example in our family.

    Of those 30 registered breeders that HAVE done their "research" into blood lines. How many out of 30 are qualified geneticists?
    research, my ass.
    Honestly, I don't even think they need to be qualified geneticists to get excellent results. But I do think they need to be testing their dogs. Winning shows does not mean you're 'improving the breed'. I think there should always be health, mental, temperament and physical testing before dogs are bred. People should be investing quite a lot into their dogs, when you do the results are amazing. But the dogs need to have the ability to make use of this investment. I just think it's disgusting that there are breeds today with average lifespans of well under 10 years.

    Even the most brilliant geneticists don't understand everything there is to understand about genes and how they work together etc. But we can test our dogs and these tests can reveal more of their genetics. I don't really view anyone who breeds without physical, health and mental testing to be ethical. And I also agree that inbreeding for physical traits like shorter snouts etc is akin 100% to animal cruelty.

  4. #54
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    You dont need to be a qualified geneticist but you do need to spend time on understanding heritable traits and testing. Some of the best working dogs come from breeders who are very serious about genetics and how they work, both from personal observations and what is scientifically known. It can pay big dividends and reduce not such good things happening to failed dogs.

    I was talking to a young farmer today and he has done a lot of research into understanding how to get the genetics in his sheep that give him the best possible return. He doesnt have a degree or even finished school but he is very interested in his business not going broke in a marginal area, so he makes the effort to do the training and learning. For him it is paying big dividends. He has electronic tags in his sheep and he knows everything about them and he farms at least 10,000 ha so we are not talking small areas here. He could give any of us a lesson in testing and using genetics on a commercial scale.

    I think it is seriously lazy not to take it seriously if you are considering breeding. A local rescue organisation that I know well told a friend of mine that most dogs in their rescue are purebreds and crossbreds from backyard breeders. When I say backyard breeders I mean breeders who breed without knowledge or are not ethical. Sure you can get good examples but the fact is that many end up in rescue.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 08-05-2014 at 08:36 PM.

  5. #55

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    I have owned, rescued and loved many X breeds and Pure breed dogs over the years. I even went to the Pet Expo in Melb a few months ago to get some info on my adopted Maltese x Laha Aspo, who it the most funny, friendly entertaining, loyal dog I have ever owned.

    When I mention this breed to the Dog Breed info lady at the information desk, she screwed up her face, grunted and turned away. I could not believe her attitude! A real dog lover what not have done that!

    Many of the Pure breed dogs I have purchased from specialist Breeders, which also cost a small fortune and had Pedigree papers, including a couple of show dogs, they had all sorts of problems like hip displacement issues German Shephards, problems with men or small children and or were very hard to train, like the Basenji I had for many years. He was lovely with me, but hated my husband and children, for no reason. They loved him, fed him and walked him as well.

    I have also had Labs as well as Kelpies as rescue dogs, who have been wonderful pets and family dogs. I have also rescued Australian Terriers x Chihuahuas and ended up falling in love with them and keeping them as well.

    My current dog is the Maltese x Laha Aspo, I keep her in a puppy/teddy cut and she is the most amazing dog I have ever owned. She loves swimming, going in the boat, helps to catch fish, rides on the farm quad bike with us, is very people and animal social and generally enjoys everything we do together.

    I also note at this stage, none of the X breeds I have owned or rescued have has ailments affecting their hips, skeleton, heart, throat, skin or coat. So I dont know if the X breeds just have a better chance of not having these inbred health issues because they are NOT so closely related or if it is just that I have been lucky.

    So those who snob the X breeds please drop your attitude...dogs come in many different shapes, sizes and temperaments. After all, your Pure breed dog has been X Breed at some stage and it may have been with its own family member.

    I disagree strongly with the Puppy farm places. But not all X Breeds have come from there... I love all dogs...and so should you...Rant over!
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 07-02-2015 at 10:16 PM. Reason: put some blank lines in so I can read it more easily

  6. #56
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    Welcome Debbid

    If you've read the whole thread here - you will know there's mixed opinions on here.

    I've got a mutt that I got from AWL. She's mostly cattle dog but who knows what else.

    So I'm not against cross breeds either. Most people are fine with you having one if you say you got it from rescue or a shelter - so you're not rewarding the person who made the "mistake" with your money.

    As for cross breeds having no problems.
    I've seen them blind, deaf - born that way and sold that way... I know several who have had multiple teeth pulled as they get around 8 years old because their mouths are so badly put together that they can't use their teeth properly. And I know two right now with skeletal problems - they will probably each end up in doggy wheel chairs or PTS before their time.

    I've seen problems in pedigrees too. But there are problems that the breeder can test for and avoid if they care about the puppies they're making... And I see dogs at our local park and beaches with those problems too.

  7. #57
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    Im reading this with 2 very well bred dogs. Both of whom has breed specific health issues, regardless of breeders claims, and ive no doubt, strenuous efforts to be a geneticist and advance the breed. But advance the breed according to whom? Kennel Club Breed Standards? I dont think i hold these in high regard any longer.

    So my next, could well be a BYB cattle dog of a smaller frame. Im good with that. And willing to PTS when quality of life is over, being respective of lifestyle desired by dog, lifestyle ability of dog.
    Id rather have a great dog relationship brief, than a pedigree confirmation bred dog for 12 yrs any day

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Im reading this with 2 very well bred dogs. Both of whom has breed specific health issues, regardless of breeders claims, and ive no doubt, strenuous efforts to be a geneticist and advance the breed. But advance the breed according to whom? Kennel Club Breed Standards? I dont think i hold these in high regard any longer.

    So my next, could well be a BYB cattle dog of a smaller frame. Im good with that. And willing to PTS when quality of life is over, being respective of lifestyle desired by dog, lifestyle ability of dog.
    Id rather have a great dog relationship brief, than a pedigree confirmation bred dog for 12 yrs any day
    I picked up a little working bred cattle dog from rescue (her oops litter was bought in by a farmers) after my last 2 showbreds had elbow dysplasia as the breeders didnt screen for it. She is a smaller dog with a very nice working build, great angles and lighter and smaller than my showbreds. Cattle dogs are genetically susceptible to PRA though so that is always a risk if parents not tested. I have also seen some very structurally poor BYB cattle dogs, very straight in the stifle which inevitablly leads to cruciate problems. I would try and source one from working origins, a dash of kelpie is often a nice infusion.

    With any breeder pedigree or otherwise, a good knowledge of what makes a structurally sound dog is very important. I guess that is why I gravitate to working lines. My next working dog is coming from a litter that will be privately bred outside any system but will have hips and genetic testing done on the parents, the parents are structurally very good and a good fit for each other, and have great working traits.

    I think that you can do all the genetic testing in the world but if you are breed to a standard that favours an unsound structure or because it is fashionable in the showring then the breed is on a very slippery slope. However backyard breeders who just throw 2 dogs together are just as bad. They can also have terrible health issues.

  9. #59

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    Thanks everyone, what a great topic to discuss

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