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Thread: Why the hate on crossbreeds?

  1. #31
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    You can't just "create" a new breed, all purebred dogs are a result of crossbreeding for specific traits at some point in time. Now if we can get back to the actual topic of the thread
    Last edited by Thingz; 07-31-2014 at 06:19 AM.

  2. #32

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    my pup is a border collie x golden retriever. His mum was a pure breed collie and his dad is a pure bred golden. He is such a beautiful dog and do not have any issues with him at all. So easy to train & very obedient. Couldn't ask for more. In saying that though, my next dog will be a pure bred Golden Retriever.

  3. #33

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    So we are going back to discuss ‘what is wrong with cross bred dogs’ ? Not including a discussion on the breeders of any dog makes this thread somewhat 'lopsided'.

    There are heaps of health problems with purebred dogs – so why potentially exacerbate the problem by cross breeding.

    LIDA Dogs - LIDA Dogs - Faculty of Veterinary Science - The University of Sydney

    As stated - the discussion is not to focus on the breeders of these dogs – then the ethics, morality, professionalism, knowledge of the breeders can’t be taken into account. So a massive problem with cross bred dogs is going to be ignored ?

    Back on topic - some links on what is wrong with cross bred dogs:

    cross bred dogs - Search Results
    Hidden suffering of cross-breed dogs bred to be cute | Mail Online

    Further to the above link – Wally Conron – regrets creating the labradoodle and starting the whole designer breed phenomenon:

    Breeder’s regret over creating labradoodle - Telegraph

    Some more links:

    Breeding designer dogs - Dogslife. Dog Breeds Magazine

    Advantages and Disadvantages of Cross Breeding Dogs

    How to find a good dog breeder | Some Thoughts About Dogs

    Happy reading !

  4. #34
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    I don't think it's possible to discuss this topic without talking about breeders and breeding practice as well. Equally I find it kind of fruitless to point the finger at byb's or puppy farms without also looking into what health problems the 'bettering' of the breeds has caused for many pure breeds.

    Yet, the pure breed community seems to be totally unwilling to admit that mistakes have been made in their own ranks. IMHO this has put off a lot of people and opened the market for designer dogs. It doesn't matter that designer dogs come with the same if not worse health problems - in the eyes of a lot of people the pure breed community has lost its credibility with reports such as "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" by the BBC.

    I'm sure the tables will turn eventually on designer dogs as well - but snobby comments on 'low quality' dogs is not going to do anything to improve the public's view on purebred breeders. Arguments that many unusable dogs were culled in the process of creating a breed is - in my world anyway - not exactly an argument in favour of purchasing a pure breed dog.
    Last edited by margoo; 07-31-2014 at 11:06 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymatejack View Post
    I'm simply dealing in reality!

    If you want to go hypothetical where maybe we find someone who wants to cross a blue heeler and a Stafford, sure lets assume they've health tested each dog(so unlikely it's not really even worth considering), what would be the potential outcome of such a cross? You have a heeler that is very prone to nipping/biting people and you have a Stafford who can do serious damage if it does nip/bite ... there's ONE obvious problem with crossbreeding!
    That's a contradiction of the common theory that you cannot predict a crossbreed's genetic make-up. I've got a kelpie x staffy (and some other breeds thrown in, I'm pretty sure) who barely displays any kelpie traits at all. But she doesn't have a staffy jaw/mouth anyway. Luck? Sure. But I think it's an exaggerated view that most crossbreeds are somehow faulty because of ill-considered mixing of dogs (or in probably at least half of the cases, the dog selecting its own mating partner). I'd love to see a study on this, but I believe serious temperament issues with crossbreeds are far rarer than some try to make it out to be.

    If you want a purebred dog, go for it. I get why that appeals to some, even though it's not for me. But there really is no need to try to justify your choice by making all crossbred dogs appear like disasters waiting to happen.

  6. #36
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    I don't think cross bred dogs are "low quality", no, not at all. I own purebred dogs, I've owned cross bred dogs. As dogs, they were all quite good at being.... dogs. At some points in my life, I have desired a dog with a higher rate of temperament and physical predictability- or phenotype. You have a higher chance of being successful here if you look for pure breeding. At other times, my needs have been more flexible and rescue dogs have suited my lifestyle.

    If I stick purely to the topic specifically, then there just isn't much more I can say, other than you cannot make a generalised statement and never expect to see exceptions.

    HOWEVER

    There are multiple issues surrounding the creation of cross breed dogs. I agree, pure breeds are the result of cross breeding. Cross breeding for a purpose that is. The individual starts out with a blueprint for the dog, and a purpose for the dog. They use scientific theory to maximise the potential of breeding in the traits desired and breeding out the undesirable traits. This meant that a lot of puppies were culled during the process.

    The problem now is that unless you are an organisation specifically involved in the creation of a cross breed (eg the Australian Cobber Dog) OR, a highly experienced individual breeding dogs for working purposes then you are most likely not
    a) starting with a blueprint and clear goal
    b) using scientific principles to maximise success
    c) culling the individuals bred who are not suited for purpose
    d) making yourself educated and aware of what other genetic landmines may cross your path
    and finally
    e) making use of genetic testing to eliminate hereditary issues

    So, no, I don't hate cross breed dogs. I'm far less friendly, however, towards the people who are cashing in on the designer dog market, and those who simply refuse to educate themselves on genetic inheritance principals and sprout all kinds of propaganda and bull to people who may not have the knowledge to avoid the traps.

  7. #37
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    I will never understand why people will buy a cross breed from a backyard breeder or puppy mill when so many beautiful cross breed dogs in pounds and shelters looking for homes...you only have to look on Pet Rescue to see that...so sad.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  8. #38
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    Yes, but also in reality crossbreeding could give some more desirable properties that a single breed might not have. If you focus on the negative then it'll always be negative. A dogs personality is not representative of their health. Your example crossbreed might be aggressive and a pain in the ass to deal with, but that might be desirable to some people.
    Gawd - where to start. This shows a fairly basic lack of understanding of genetics, and also a lack of understanding of selective breeding history - how long it has taken to get where they are.

    In the bad old days - in my life time I think - it was ok to routinely kill any puppy that didn't "improve the breed" or set it back even... So very few of these ended up in peoples homes or were bred from - keeping the breed "true". It's probable that before there were breed registers (or even after breeders started keeping records), that some "out crossing" for different traits were done.

    With the cattle dogs - one line they tried adding a bit of bull terrier for strength but found they got a dog that was way too nippy and would or could remove the ankle of a young animal... not a desirable trait so they didn't encourage that line. The cattle dogs are really old but also really quite new (only a couple of hundred years old or since Australia started being settled by Europeans).

    But being farm dogs - you can bet any dog that wasn't a good doer and a good herder was killed fairly young. I've got a book on training herding dogs and it says you cull any dog that won't work for you. It says stuff about you're not going to get a dog to work for you if you're mean to it but... the ones that would rather go sniff - aren't going to live long in that environment. But it's always possible for a handler to be more important to a dog than food, just with some dogs, achieving that can be more difficult. Eg beagles - sniffing and tracking is often more important than food, and with border collies - herding is more important than food... and you have to work with that.

    So it's quite common on farms for a farmer to think - hmm, this dog is really great at this and this other dog is really great at that, lets put them together and see if we can get a good combination from the puppies. If there is a litter of 8 puppies, two might have the combined qualities that the farmer wants and he'd have to drown the rest. But that is less acceptable today when we're more aware of animals having feelings.

    Back in the bad old days - churches and some scientists routinely taught that humans were top and special and no other animal had feelings or deserved humane treatment. For a long time it was acceptable to treat "low bred" humans inhumanely too. It's only been a lot of science that has proved that humans are pretty much the same and one is lesser than the other - tho it's interesting when two sports people get together and breed.

    I'm still waiting for news of Curry Kenny kids to hit the pool - they'd be fast. And there's a few children of hockey players out there that could also be brilliant at sport... it's just a bit sad (for the nation's sporting success) when they're short and they'd rather play netball...

    A dogs personality is not representative of their health
    Can't agree with this either. It's quite often for someone (or some dog) with sore joints or bad teeth to be really grumpy.

    I suspect aggressive PITA dogs - don't live long even in today's society. It's become completely unacceptable for dogs to be like this to the point that teaching IPO dog sport in some states of Australia has been banned. And yet those dogs must be completely safe with their handlers and are a lot safer than your average big jawed scary looking dog that is left alone to guard the back yard from "bad people".

    The whole point of a guard dog is it must be bonded with its humans and wary of strangers. You can't do that if it gets no time with its humans because it bites them. You might as well keep a crocodile to protect the back yard.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Can't agree with this either. It's quite often for someone (or some dog) with sore joints or bad teeth to be really grumpy. .
    Yep, but a dog can be any kind of emotion without any health issues too, as you mentioned before about people becoming aware they actually have feelings, after living with them for a while you can basically read their emotions just as well as another human. But once again this purely comes down to how the dogs were bred and raised, and I, just as everyone else here is aware, can have negative consequences when it's not done properly. My gripe is with people that seem to think crossbreeds are somehow less of a dog than their purebred counterparts, with no real reasoning behind it, or at least that they're willing to share. What I wanted as a result of this thread was for people to hopefully shed some light on what makes people feel this way about crossbreeds in general. The general consensus seems to be that people don't like crossbreeds because most of their breeders are doing it irresponsibly, but in terms of the ones that are bred responsibly, why are they seemingly in this "sub-canine" class (to use Beloz's analogy), and that apparently no one wants them? I've been to shelters where there's been just as many purebred dogs as crossbred, that ultimately comes down to irresponsible owners, not a bad dog. Cross breeds are always going to be around, registering as a breeder is completely optional and some people will choose to go the non-registered, crossbreed path. To me it honestly makes more sense to educate people about the crossbreeds rather than saying their dog is crap and they should have gone to a registered breeder. Chances are it's already too late and they've already accepted this dog into their family (and the dog will be starting to realize this it's new home too), and no sane person is going to take it back just because they've been told by someone else their dog is "crap" because it's a cross breed.
    Last edited by Thingz; 07-31-2014 at 04:12 PM.

  10. #40
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    My gripe is with people that seem to think crossbreeds are somehow less of a dog than their purebred counterparts, with no real reasoning behind it, or at least that they're willing to share.
    Ok I've not met any I'd say were bred responsibly. So I can't comment on responsibly bred cross bred mutts. In my experience - pet shop puppies (the small cute ones) have more health problems and are not so well trained as dogs that come from responsible breeders who make sure their new puppy homes are fully informed and supported before and after taking the dog home.

    But if you want an "unbiased opinion", my dog hates poodle crosses. She finds them rude, obnoxious, in your face bullies that don't know when to back off - ie they're crap at reading doggy body language signals. They can't do a polite greeting even as an adult fully grown dog, they pull on lead and they jump all over other dogs they're trying to say hello to and they play too rough.

    So now when she sees one coming - she shoos it off before it can say hello. And she's quite forceful about it because they don't understand subtle signals to rack off.

    So my guess is that a poodle cross is more likely to be owned by someone who is uneducated or misinformed about what goes on with the breeding of these dogs, has not had good support from the breeders and has not had any training for themselves or the dogs. These owners allow rude behaviour by their dogs and then blame other dogs for being upset with it and then say icky things like "you shouldn't bring an unfriendly dog to an off lead park"... "You shouldn't bring a rude obnoxious thug of a dog to an off lead park.

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