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Thread: Border Collie x Golden Retriever

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Lemme see - he was younger than 8 weeks old when you got him?

    I would be trying to get him to as many places to meet as many new people and dogs on lead as you can right now because you've got a lot of making up to do. That last week at home with the litter mates - is when a puppy learns doggy manners. Ie how to calm other dogs and not start fights accidentally... And now is when you have to get him used to lots of people.

    I've met grumpy golden retrievers who attack other dogs - and border collies can be even worse - so make sure he gets plenty of new experiences with people and dogs - but protect him from bad experiences like being trodden on or getting too close to a grumpy dog.
    We got him when he was 8 weeks, they wouldnt let us have him earlier and we didnt want him until he was 8 weeks. He gets his 12 week shot this Thursday so a week or so after is when we can start taking him out for walks and runs etc. Cant wait!!!

  2. #22
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    You could probably organise play dates now - with dogs you know are vaccinated and friendly. And their people.

    In their back yards. It's not completely risk free but if you're not in a high risk parvo area (eg Salisbury and Elizabeth SA) you should be ok.

    Check with your vet - mine said it takes two weeks after the final booster for the immunity to be built strong enough.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99bottles View Post
    Honestly, if I was ever going to seriously breed dogs, I would breed border collie crosses. They are by far the most intelligent and trainable dogs but they're a little bit too focused on herding things for my liking. If they don't have an outlet, well I've seen many that seemed to be more than a little crazy. So yeah, I'd be very interested in trying to build on the intelligence of a border collie but combine the traits from a less obsessive breed, like, maybe a golden retriever. Border collies are intense, for people working sheep that's awesome but for people living in suburbia (which makes up the majority of dog owners these days) well, a border collie mix might be an easier dog to enjoy.

    Still want to be careful and selective about what goes into any mating, but I'm talking big picture level here.

    PS your dog is gorgeous
    A well bred working BC doesnt need to be obsessive. See there are so many poorly bred Border collies out there that people dont understand what a good one can be like. The trouble is they are often bred in the wrong hands. You shouldnt need another breed to quieten them down. That idea to me is pointless. A crazy working BC is not a well bred BC. My herding dogs are only focussed on herding whn I herd with them. Calm is very much prized when working livestock I can tell you. Minimal movement is good. A needlessly busy dog is a complete pain in the butt and is often more of a liability.

    Both my well bred working BC and kelpie have a very definite off switch. A lot of thought went into their genetics. They will work their hearts out and they like to train but they are easy to live with. My mother is always surprised at how good they are when I visit her for days to her small unit in the city. As to intelligence, my mothers poodle cross is quite frankly just as smart as are my cattle dogs.

    I am not saying they cant be a handful but so was my mums poodle retriever mix, now that was a puppy without an off switch but an incredibly smart little creature and highly trainable. Certainly my Border collies are no smarter or easier to train than my other herding breeds.
    I personally dont think they are by far more intelligent or easier to train than all breeds. I know some working bred labs that are simply amazing. The top obedience dogs over here are Aussie shepherds and Novia Scotia duck tolling retrievers, with the odd German Shepherd thrown in.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-17-2014 at 08:23 PM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    A well bred working BC doesnt need to be obsessive. See there are so many poorly bred Border collies out there that people dont understand what a good one can be like. The trouble is they are often bred in the wrong hands. You shouldnt need another breed to quieten them down. That idea to me is pointless. A crazy working BC is not a well bred BC. My herding dogs are only focussed on herding whn I herd with them. Calm is very much prized when working livestock I can tell you. Minimal movement is good. A needlessly busy dog is a complete pain in the butt and is often more of a liability.

    Both my well bred working BC and kelpie have a very definite off switch. A lot of thought went into their genetics. They will work their hearts out and they like to train but they are easy to live with. My mother is always surprised at how good they are when I visit her for days to her small unit in the city. As to intelligence, my mothers poodle cross is quite frankly just as smart as are my cattle dogs.

    I am not saying they cant be a handful but so was my mums poodle retriever mix, now that was a puppy without an off switch but an incredibly smart little creature and highly trainable. Certainly my Border collies are no smarter or easier to train than my other herding breeds.
    I personally dont think they are by far more intelligent or easier to train than all breeds. I know some working bred labs that are simply amazing. The top obedience dogs over here are Aussie shepherds and Novia Scotia duck tolling retrievers, with the odd German Shepherd thrown in.
    I don't think it's coincidence that every time you see one of those 'smartest dog' documentaries, the border collie comes out on top. They even found that border collies alone possess a gene found in humans that is required for higher learning, I'll don't remember all the details but I'll try find a link to the documentary. Here's some peer reviewed academic information though - "The report stated that researchers studying dog genomes have found a gene that may be responsible for their higher level of intelligence when compared to other dog breeds.
    It's called CTNND2. In humans, this gene is important for normal cognitive development. The Border Collie genome shows selective breeding for this gene."
    "Joshua Akey et al published a paper in PNAS a few years ago on identifying regions of the canine genome that have been substrates of artificial selection (Tracking footprints of artificial selection in the dog genome). CTNND2 was one of the genes (or more accurately, a gene in a broader genomic region) that showed up as having unusually high levels of genetic differentiation between Collies and other breeds".

    Your kelpie and your mother's poodle mix might be as smart as your border collie, I know my Dobermann cross is smarter than most dogs, but I would still argue based on the above evidence and my own observations that border collies are number one overall when it comes to intelligence and trainability.

    Also, I'm not saying there's no place for pure border collies. The personality suits you, same as the personality of strong, dominant, guarding breeds suits me. I was only saying that from my own perspective, I could understand why someone would want to mix them and the value they could perceive in a cross. The fact that you know they will, "work their hearts out" to me suggests you understand the breed well and provide them with outlets. I've trained my dog to have an off-switch as well and with a prey drive higher than most working Malinois, well I'm not trying to brag but most people wouldn't achieve that with this dog. My comment was only that for the majority of people who own border collies these days, they might have an easier time of it with a cross. Just an observation.

    Personally, my dream dog would have the personality, confidence and protective instincts of a Dobermann cross (Shepherd and Rottie thrown in) with the learning gene of the Border Collie.

  5. #25
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    99 bottles on this one we will have to disagree LOL. The majority of farm dogs spend a lot of their time kennelled or chained or on the back of utes. Sheep work is often sporadic. Contrary to popular belief they are not on the go all the time with jobs. The crazy ones are quickly culled or sent to sporting homes.

    As to the learning gene, I can only tell you from years of being around Border collies and other herding breeds like the Koolie (has that been assessed for a learning gene, or the kelpie? possibly not because these breeds are not mainstream world wide) that these dogs are every bit as smart as the Border collie. The fact that labs are used as guide dogs that hold the life of a person in their hands tells me that their are plenty of other intelligent genetics around. The main sheep dog around here is the kelpie. Man the good dogs are amazing and fetch a lot of money. I did a stint on a cattle station long ago. Those cattle dogs were awesome and the bonds they had with their stockman and the intelligence they showed. Why I still have them today, my current working bred pup is probably the smartest dog I have ever owned. I have found a good cattle dog to be a more lateral thinker than the BC, perhaps not always as biddable but often better at problem solving.

    I just dont understand why there is the need to dilute what the Border collie is. There are so many other suitable dogs around for different jobs and lifestyles and bags of intelligence in the dog world. There is simply no need to cross them. I know some incredibly laid back showbred Border collies. I have one myself. I have sent her to live with my family in the city as she is totally suited to suburban life. Find a good breeder of show dogs and you will often find a BC totally suited to suburbia. People just have to be more cany and selective when they chose to own a breed.

    Hey we know staffies can be a huge energetic handful do we think that people who want to own a staffy would be better off with a cross? or the smart energetic jack russell better as a cross?. Where does it end.

    Anyway probably a topic for another thread. Hopefully the owner of the cute Griffey will hang around as the young boy grows and ask questions.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-18-2014 at 09:25 AM.

  6. #26
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    I don't think it's coincidence that every time you see one of those 'smartest dog' documentaries, the border collie comes out on top.
    I think this could be because they've not met coolies, cattle dogs or kelpies...

    The first obedience competition was created by a poodle owner to show off how smart they are.

    I think a lot of the city border collies are failed farm dogs - that otherwise might have been shot. Occasionally you get one that is a retired farm dog but that's rare.

    I don't think crossing border collies in an attempt to breed intelligent city dogs is a good idea either. And probably the idea deserves a separate thread. Most miniature poodles do just fine training their owners to do their every bidding. It's not usually the dog that is the problem in that relationship. And giving a city person with no idea of how to train and manage their dog - a smarter dog - is a dumb idea.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 06-18-2014 at 07:16 PM. Reason: malaprop completion <> competition

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I think a lot of the city border collies are failed farm dogs - that otherwise might have been shot. Occasionally you get one that is a retired farm dog but that's rare.

    And giving a city person with no idea of how to train and manage their dog - a smarter dog - is a dumb idea.
    Yes unfortunately a lot of poorly bred working type dogs find themselves in the city. A showbred BC is often health tested, smart and quite suited to an active city lifestyle. I know quite a lot of them and they do great.

    I also agree that a super intelligent dog does need stimulation and interaction or it can get itself into all sorts of trouble. Yes and how smart are poodles LOL. VERY!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    99 bottles on this one we will have to disagree LOL. The majority of farm dogs spend a lot of their time kennelled or chained or on the back of utes. Sheep work is often sporadic. Contrary to popular belief they are not on the go all the time with jobs. The crazy ones are quickly culled or sent to sporting homes.

    As to the learning gene, I can only tell you from years of being around Border collies and other herding breeds like the Koolie (has that been assessed for a learning gene, or the kelpie? possibly not because these breeds are not mainstream world wide) that these dogs are every bit as smart as the Border collie. The fact that labs are used as guide dogs that hold the life of a person in their hands tells me that their are plenty of other intelligent genetics around. The main sheep dog around here is the kelpie. Man the good dogs are amazing and fetch a lot of money. I did a stint on a cattle station long ago. Those cattle dogs were awesome and the bonds they had with their stockman and the intelligence they showed. Why I still have them today, my current working bred pup is probably the smartest dog I have ever owned. I have found a good cattle dog to be a more lateral thinker than the BC, perhaps not always as biddable but often better at problem solving.

    I just dont understand why there is the need to dilute what the Border collie is. There are so many other suitable dogs around for different jobs and lifestyles and bags of intelligence in the dog world. There is simply no need to cross them. I know some incredibly laid back showbred Border collies. I have one myself. I have sent her to live with my family in the city as she is totally suited to suburban life. Find a good breeder of show dogs and you will often find a BC totally suited to suburbia. People just have to be more cany and selective when they chose to own a breed.

    Hey we know staffies can be a huge energetic handful do we think that people who want to own a staffy would be better off with a cross? or the smart energetic jack russell better as a cross?. Where does it end.

    Anyway probably a topic for another thread. Hopefully the owner of the cute Griffey will hang around as the young boy grows and ask questions.
    I did think getting a pup long and hard before I got one, far too often I see people getting dogs then after a while the "fad" of having one wears off and they don't give the dog any time or they give it away, so sad.
    I am so happy with him even when he is a menace he's my menace and he's so smart and amazing. I think down the track I may get another dog because I've always wanted 2 just not too sure. Are there any specific breeds that get along with certain dogs than others? I've always wanted a pure bred lab, retriever or boxer

  9. #29
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    Hi Jamie23

    Just make sure before you get the second dog - that you have the basics with the first dog - ie it comes when called, and doesn't bark all day and is polite with visitors and other dogs etc.

    Because the second dog will copy what the first dog does... So if the first dog ignores you when you call - the second dog will too.

  10. #30
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    Yes I would have fun and learn the ropes with Griffey first. Then think about the possibilities of a second dog using the experience you have gained. You will also be able to do plenty of research for your second dog and a good idea of you are looking for. The world of dogs is amazing but there is a lot of learning in there as well.

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