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Thread: I officially now support BSL

  1. #31
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    Jan 2012
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    Puppy preschool isnt there to replace proper training .... its more about training the humans how to deal with their new pup food wise and very basic training, toilet training, seperation anxiety, basic socializing etc etc. Its better than nothing at all like most people choose to do.

    Look at it as exactly the same as childrens preschool .... it's a great way to teach the kids the very basics before primary school starts.

    Nothing wrong with it all and "throwing it out the window" would achieve sweet F all except maybe make more money for those that run their own training schools.
    The problem is it doesnt teach the basics. It's too sterile environment for that stage of development and they should be out in the field around noises etc. We had puppies almost sitting on top of a running lawnmower in class today, I'm cheaper then most puppy schools. Would you rather your puppy do that or sit in a sterile vet office. Dogs should go to dog school if you have not owned or trained a dog before. Ongoing help while the dog is developing. If people want to charge you hundreds of dollars to just sign up for group classes, well unless the dogs spin plates on their paws find somewhere realistic.
    http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c11/Mali_nut/K9LOGO.jpg

  2. #32

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    what a cool looking dog!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Rural Western Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekhbet View Post
    The problem is it doesnt teach the basics. It's too sterile environment for that stage of development and they should be out in the field around noises etc. We had puppies almost sitting on top of a running lawnmower in class today, I'm cheaper then most puppy schools. Would you rather your puppy do that or sit in a sterile vet office. Dogs should go to dog school if you have not owned or trained a dog before. Ongoing help while the dog is developing. If people want to charge you hundreds of dollars to just sign up for group classes, well unless the dogs spin plates on their paws find somewhere realistic.
    When I lived in a Regional centre I was a volunteer instructor at the local dog club along with several other people who were not professional instructors but had raised and worked or trialed quite a few dogs and I gave 2 nights of my week to instructing.. We worked with the local council and ranger to promote our puppy and general obedience classes. $40-$60 per year joined you up with unlimited attendence at classes for the year. Our training methods were primarily based in positive reinforcement but in a sensible way. One of our volunteers had bred and worked with rotties and was pretty adept at handling and training them. The classes became very popular, with the ranger and local council heavily recommending them to people licensing their dogs and the ranger spoke to schools as well. Anything that we recognised as needing professional help beyond what we could realistically supply we referred on to appropriate professionals that we knew were good. Professional trainers were a 5 hour drive away.

    Amazing how little a lot of people knew about dogs, but many were pretty keen to learn and train their dogs. We often got whole families along. I remember one little boy doing a super job with his retriever puppy. We got quite alot of people who had adopted rescue dogs as well.

    The puppy classes that our local vet ran were actually not too bad. It was more about puppies interacting with other puppies and people and general questions about their care. They were then recommended on to out local dog club once they were about 12-14 weeks.

    Maybe not totally ideal but in the circumstances I think we did pretty well even though at times we did suffer from the burnout of giving our time to deal with other peoples dogs rather than our own!

  4. #34

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    Thanks Hyacinth Yeah that's my Sammy. Not dog aggressive in the slightest, or human aggressive for that matter, but what I was told by one amstaff owner is that he looks like he'd make for a good fight, and some amstaffs with the correct 'gameness' look for a challenge so Sammy is attractive to them on that front. He's also entire so that seems to set them off that little bit more, even though I've never had an issue with him with other entire males - and he's spent a lot of time with GSD entire males, GSP, Vizla's - lots of decent size, powerful dogs. Sammy is not aggressive, but he is a confident dog and he holds his tail and head high so I guess if you're looking for a fight, he looks like a great tall poppy.

    I didn't say that it was a breed exclusive problem, I mean I would argue that many of the dogs I have seen causing problems weren't purebreds anyway but there are definitely some breeds that are more likely to be involved in serious incidents. I mean the very fact that I've had so many altercations with purebred Amstaffs is something I refuse to disregard as a coincidence. I mean, if you breed something for a particular purpose, you can't really be surprised when your dog exhibits those traits. My fox terrier/jack Russell cross growing up one day tipped over my mouse cage and killed all my mice, I was devastated but it was my family's fault really for not knowing enough about the type of dog that we were bringing home - we bought him from a pet shop. My current dog can't catch a mouse even when surrounded by 100's (we had a mouse plague one year in Adelaide) - he wasn't bred for those traits, but he did once protect me from 2 men that were later found to have attacked other women because that was what he was bred for.

    You will have exceptions but I think it's safe to say that on the whole, you want a social dog to hang out at the dog park, an Amstaff is probably not for you. You should never rely on a dog to protect you but there are a couple of breeds regularly used for the job, that have been since they were created. You want an obedience champion? Maybe avoid the Siberian Huskies and Beagles etc, not because you can't achieve those things with that dog but because there are other breeds that are naturally inclined to be better at it. So breed makes a difference and I think we all know that. It doesn't mean you can know exactly what a dog will be like, but you can certainly make an educated guess.

    In regards to Cesar Milan, I don't care whether you agree with his training methods or not, his pitbulls don't scare me in the slightest, they appear to trust and respect him 100%. I'm not saying we all need the same training methods, we just need to ensure that people understand the type of dog they're bringing home and are capable of handling that kind of dog.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Canberra
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    personally I am anti breed specific legislation, it ultimately is an indiscriminate tool when used to control dog attacks and results in many lovely well behaved family pets being destroyed based on nothing other than their physical appearance whilst at the same time having minimal impact on dog bites / attacks. If BSL was defined as behaviour specific legislation I would think it could have some merit, but it would have to apply to all dogs and owners regardless of the size of the dog. Small dogs may not have the physical size to inflict the same damage as large dogs, but their behaviour can still result in harm - in my case I vividly recall having to control my (up until that point) calm and friendly dane x while a couple of jack russels went for him biting his genitals (to be honest when that happened there was some temptation to let him sort it out himself - but I had no wish to be party to the death of someones pet, no matter how shitty the dogs and owner, and also had no wish for my dog to be taken away/destroyed for being 'dangerous').

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99bottles View Post
    I mean the very fact that I've had so many altercations with purebred Amstaffs is something I refuse to disregard as a coincidence. I mean, if you breed something for a particular purpose, you can't really be surprised when your dog exhibits those traits.
    wow, I'm yet to see a dog running around with pedigree papers hanging around their neck, how do you know they were purebred?

    As far as cause "that's what they were bred to do" goes, well my dog, a Staffordshire bull terrier was also bred for dog fighting, in fact it was the breed used to create the amstaff, however somehow my dog runs around at the beach with other dogs every day of the week and has yet to start a fight, the worst he's done is been a little too rough for some dogs(more so the owners than the dogs, but that's another story). We also get plenty of amstaff's and even what I would consider the more pitbull type of "amstaff" and yet I hardly ever see these dogs causing a problem.

    I just can't understand why my fighting breed dog isn't running around attacking other dogs. Can you explain it?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    I'm yet to see a dog running around with pedigree papers hanging around their neck
    usually one might have a conversation with the dog owner (after the dog fight has been averted). And if the look of the dog is consistent with the pedigree claimed, why dispute it. The only one I would dispute these days would be "pedigree or pure bred pitbull" because they've been banned from breeding and importing for so long that you can't be sure about people's record keeping of ancestry etc. People would have a vested interest in not keeping good records.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    melbourne australia
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    BSL can we have that for types of owners?
    The obese shouter short haired
    The long haired stoner who walks dogs from the sofa
    yep, lets ban them for a start.

    I have owned 4 GSD's. All have been working lines. Absolute ban on working line dogs in suburbia, yep, id be up for that.
    I have owned 3 rotties. Conformation lines. All crap. 1 rottie working line protection my heart dog this was. Kevin RIP
    I have a stupidly large bordeaux. Friendly fella, who so bloody dangerous due to size and enthusiasm, he'd knock folks over in greeting or slobber them to death with kisses, as only a bordeaux could do.

    I guess with these 'powerful' dogs, id be prevented from owning them with BSL.
    What is BSL anyhow, other than misinformation enforced?

    Id like to see "how to break up a dog fight" safely and "why you should NEVER pick up your SWF when approached by a aggressively behaving dog being taught at puppy classes. Any dipstick can teach a dog to sit for goodness sakes. If you havent managed that by pup pre school, maybe you shouldnt have a dog?

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Rural Western Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Id like to see "how to break up a dog fight" safely and "why you should NEVER pick up your SWF when approached by a aggressively behaving dog being taught at puppy classes. Any dipstick can teach a dog to sit for goodness sakes. If you havent managed that by pup pre school, maybe you shouldnt have a dog?
    Bernie I am 2 minds on this one. I have had 2 friends have their SWF killed by large dogs when they left them on the ground. I saved one of my parents dogs by picking her up and turning my back repeatedlly on the aggressor. Left on the ground that dog would be dead. I know the thinking behind it but I am not convinced from my own personal experience.

    As to any dipstick teaching their dogs manners you would be surprised. I was amazed at what I saw coming through our dog club.

  10. #40

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    It is a shame for us bully owners these things happens. Sometimes there are no excuses and it is very unfortunate.
    I agree with mymatejack - Not everyone should own a bully or stronger breed if you cannot control it.

    I agree with licensing - hence ANKC should recognize all bully breed and let owners register thm accordingly. then this way
    we can eliminate owners who cannot provide the attention the breed needed.
    m<(o.o)>m

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