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Thread: I officially now support BSL

  1. #11

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    I'm actually both annoyed and disgusted by this thread, sure the licensing idea has merit(i've raised it before) but supporting any sort of BSL, well, watch that clip and think about if it was your dog getting killed for doing nothing wrong other than looking a certain way.

  2. #12
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    Remind me that no matter how much he pisses me off, not to divorce Hubby. I am very happy in my own little insulated micro universe.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  3. #13
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    Sorry this has happened to you 99 Bottles yet again

    I don't think BSL is the answer, the only people that pay are the honest people. It pissed me off that fools like this let their dogs loose, they need to use their heads.

    An owner licencing systems would be the most effective, but the most difficult to police.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  4. #14
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    MMJ

    That would be my fear. 99bottles has a big scary looking dog - and BSL takes those dogs away and has them PTS. The whole deal is they don't have to do anything wrong.

    In NSW - what that menancing dog did - is already illegal. BSL is not going to stop stuff like that happening. Not if they don't enforce the laws they do have.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    MMJ

    In NSW - what that menancing dog did - is already illegal. BSL is not going to stop stuff like that happening. Not if they don't enforce the laws they do have.
    That is right. I know menacing dogs of all breeds. The ones that scared me most in the past are rotties but I also know some delightful ones that are well bred and well trained. I have blue and red cattle dogs also well bred and well trained and definitely not aggressive. I have known a seriously scary pit bull that was euthanaised after she savaged a passer by, her owners were shite, had no idea, and I also know one that I have looked after that is the sweetest dog ever and she and my dogs got on so well. Depressing really when people give your breed a bad name.

  6. #16

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    So in Italy - they banned 95 different kinds of breeds including Dobermans and Rottweilers... and then they realised it wasn't making any difference to the number of nasty dog bites.
    lol, why are we bringing the Italians into this? I love the Italians and they make the best food and cars and have the coolest soundest language etc. but sometimes they just don't know what they're doing.

  7. #17

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    Well BSL simply stands for breed specific legislation - I never mentioned banning any breeds, nor would I ever support anything like that firstly and most importantly because I don't believe it works but secondly because whilst some breeds have the potential to become more dangerous than others, in the right hands I have not heard of a single breed that can't be a nice dog. I am the owner of an entire male Dobe cross Rottweiler and I plan to continue owning these types of dogs. My goal is not to see any breeds banned, but rather to introduce legislation that would require people to have a license to own powerful breeds. Once you have a license, there are no further restrictions on what you can and can't do with the dog. You just have to prove that you understand what sort of dog you want to own.

    These animals are very powerful, they can seriously hurt and/or kill other animals or worse, people and so there needs to be some work on the part of the prospective owners to prove that they will be responsible for their dogs and that they can handle what they're getting into. Have them assessed by professional dog trainers. I'm not a qualified trainer, but I can easily tell by the way that a person interacts with their dog whether they have any understanding of dog behaviour, communication and you can see what the dog thinks of them pretty quickly too. I would suggest that the system be introduced to apply to all dogs from a certain date onwards. Obviously I don't want to see any families broken up or dogs removed that are already settled in homes, even if the owners are not really ideal candidates for that sort of breed. And if you don't pass the test, you can still go out and buy a small to medium dog - I wouldn't want to see anyone deprived of having a dog. I just feel that as we move towards higher density living, the population continues to increase and negative interactions with dogs keep happening, it falls to the dog community to develop an effective strategy so that we can continue to own the dogs we want to own and people don't have to live in fear for themselves or their pets. Currently, the BSL calls for the banning of certain breeds. Well, I'm saying change it from banning (which doesn't work anyway and still doesn't put enough of the onus on the owners) to licensing for owners for powerful dogs. And in terms of powerful I guess for simplicity it would need to be based on weight, but then perhaps with different grades. Perhaps you need a license to own any dog over 15kg and then a higher level if you want to own any breed that has ever been used in wars or by the police as a weapon (so obviously not beagles and spaniels for drug detection etc). This way, even if people tried to lie about the breeds in their dog and it wasn't pure, they would still have to undergo some assessment to ensure they weren't entirely incompetent. I don't think the licenses should be limited in number and I think that once you have one, you can do everything that other people can do with their dogs. It could be something you carry in your wallet and just forget about once you have it. I would love to be walking down the street and know that every powerful dog I saw was owned by a responsible, competent owner.

    There is a huge difference between aggression and how dangerous an animal is. I am not trying to say that I don't think small breeds can be aggressive, my own dog has been attacked by them many times, and on a few occasions they have even drawn blood. But did I ever fear for Sammy's life? He got a tiny cut on his lip, it was gone 2 days later. I mean I guess if everyone wanted we could issue licensing for all dogs, big or small but I personally think that would be unnecessary. Small dogs are not weapons, they're not used by the armed forces and/or police as 'man-stoppers' because seriously, if I accidentally step on the damn thing I've probably broken it. I mean you have an experience like I did the other night with the bully type, or with a GSD or Rottweiler, you're not laughing about it the next day. It's not annoying or frustrating, it's down right terrifying. You can't stop thinking about what could have happened - and that's if you're not in hospital or at vet dealing with what did happen.

  8. #18
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    It is a tricky one. I doubt if this country has the resources needed to fund or police such a program. There are much bigger priority areas for the government to spend money, which is why BSL is the default position regardless of if it works. Also you would have to do it for every dog the person owns. I have had different personalities with in the same breed, one in particular needing considerably more skill in handling and training than the others. You might be assessed on a dog with a wonderful temperament but the next one you get could be a completely different ball game that may be completely outside your level of skill and experience.

  9. #19
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    if policed properly your licenseing idea has merit, but it wont stop the bad owners..... the ones who do the right thing aren't the ones you have the issue with.....

    shithouse that happened to you though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I love 2 things in this world. Spandex and reyzor... not necessarily in that order.

  10. #20

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    Kalacreek you raise a very good point that dogs within the same breed can be very different and this is something that is especially apparent in popular breeds, like GSD's etc. I guess I still think the licensing system would have merit because to own any dog of those breeds, or even just over a particular weight limit, you would have been assessed. Anyone who passed would have reasons for wanting to own that breed and would have to have done some research around those dogs and I think that whilst it certainly wouldn't eliminate all issues, it would substantially reduce them. There are people at the moment walking into pet shops all over the country and buying puppies. I have seen Belgian Shepherds, Staffies, American Bulldogs, Cattle Dogs etc in displays next to Maltese's, Puggles, 'oodles etc and the same person could buy a puppy from either group at the moment without a moment of pause. At the same time, a guy who has had several dogs hurt other dogs or people can walk into any pet shop or buy any dog online and go through an identical process once again, only with new victims.

    I think as well, once people are more educated, they are better able to determine what they can and can't handle and identify a more suitable dog for themselves. I know at the sporting club I used to be a member of, if someone got a dog and the trainers noticed it was too much (and often the person knew anyway because they were seriously struggling at home), they helped rehome the dog, and also helped them find a dog that was more suited.

    It's not a quick fix but I think it could be a quick improvement with continually increasing ongoing benefits. I don't know. I know banning breeds doesn't work, not to mention it scares me because I own a breed likely to be targeted. I hate the idea of dogs being restricted from more areas. But these are the 2 strategies our government seems to be fond of. It's all good and well to say, well that would be hard to police - gosh issue special collars or something with a special dog tag - people will be proud to have them because they show off your superior dog handling skills. Or that it's too expensive - well I would pay for a special collar for Sammy and tag, I feel horrible every time I walk down the street and someone grabs their kid or nearly steps in front of a bus to avoid him because they've had a bad experience with another Doberman or Rottweiler or just large dog. The breeders would get on board, I think they'd love another way to assess whether prospective buyers were suitable and committed to their dogs - they couldn't buy one without a license same as you can't currently sell them unmicrochipped. And I think if you can't afford the $20-$50 for the process, well then you probably can't afford a large powerful dog. They are a luxury item in today's society and that's not going to change. You don't have to own a powerful dog, but if you want to, that's fine, just instead of waiting for something to go wrong we issue preventative measures.

    If you had a dog with a docked tail or cropped ears, you need to carry a certificate from a vet with you to prove it was done ethically. There may still be people who hide their dogs in their backyards and never take them out so we can never see whether they have a special collar or license or whatever, and whilst I think that's sad for the dog, there would at least be fewer people in heavily populated streets where their dogs could do lots of damage. So either way I imagine we would see a decrease in the number of incidents. And of course fines for non-compliance.

    No-one seems to have any ideas, only criticisms. I want a solution that could work for everyone and that will actually eventually be effective because firstly I'm acutely aware that what we have at the moment is not working, but perhaps more importantly, I know that eventually with the way today's government works, someone else will do something and I'd prefer the responses to be developed by people actually in the dog community.

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