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Thread: Should Crossbreeds (and breeders) be discriminated with higher registration costs?

  1. #31
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    I think the problem is that many of the crossbreeds dumped in the pound are from unethical breedings by people who dont understand what an ethical breeding is.

    You can get breeders of registered pedigree dogs who are unethical, however sticter rules are forever reducing this, like compulsory screening for genetic diseases etc. There is no such checks on the breeding of crossbreed dogs.

    Crossbred dogs are reletively common in the working world, however serious breeders of theses dogs are experienced in what they are looking for. This cant be said for the people who want to breed Fluffy because she is sooo cute, or the pet shop down the road is offering good money, or a certain cross has become fashionable.

    I think it is a myth that all crossbreed dogs are healthier and random matings can be disasterous. The Pedigree world can also shoot itself in the foot by in some breeds chasing extreme characteristics in their breeds for the showring.

    I cant say I have a problem with what 99bottles is proposing. However good structure, history, temperament and health testing are essential as is the welfare of the puppies produced, but that seems to have been covered.

  2. #32
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    A good backyard breeder.

    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  3. #33
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    Sadly registered breeders can be nothing more than BYB's too. High puppy turnover and no health testing. I know this because this is where my elbow dysplatic dog came from. Several pups I have know have also been euthed for PRA from same breeder. Reports to the ANKC were brushed aside. This was some years ago. Continued complaints have seen compulsory testing for ED and HD and other genetics in certain breeds enforced. Enforced because they were not being done voluntarily.

    Agility friends of mine have done their own breedings. Proven agility dogs (working bred) completely health tested - hips, elbows and all the genetics, structures assessed. Puppies spoken for before the mating take place.

    Which is the BYB or should I say non ethical breeder?

  4. #34
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    Reports to the ANKC were brushed aside.
    ANKC and their State affiliates really need to do better than this or they will become obsolete and ignored.

    I think you have to get info on your chosen breed from more than one souce and more than one breeder. The breeders know who is producing dodgy dogs... the trick is to get them to tell you.

  5. #35
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    I think things have probably improved with the compulsory testing, although only in some breeds.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    ANKC and their State affiliates really need to do better than this or they will become obsolete and ignored.

    I think you have to get info on your chosen breed from more than one souce and more than one breeder. The breeders know who is producing dodgy dogs... the trick is to get them to tell you.
    Totally agree...years ago (I'm not young) I chose a certain breed was told by people in the club that this breeder has good dogs...so I rang and was told I'm not breeding yet.

    So I waited 12 mths...got our puppy took her to the vet the next day for a check up (as you do) vet said pup has Coccidiosis and if left untreated the pup would die...he told me to ring the breeder as all dogs the breeder owned would have this...rang breeder and was told "we don't have this" and if you don't like it bring the pup back.

    We took the pup back the next day and the breeder stole part of our money...claimed it was for needles..phone calls etc even though we'd only had the pup three days. I got my vet to write a letter about the pups condition and I wrote a letter of complaint and delivered both to Dogs NSW (Canine Council as it was back then) myself.

    I got a letter from Dogs NSW saying that because what the pup had was treatable the breeder has done nothing wrong and steeling money has nothing to do with them either...what a load of BS and the bastards had the hide to send me a membership form which ended up in the bin.

    There are many health problems in dogs that are treatable...but who the hell wants a dog with them and to take this bastard breeder to court would have cost far more than what was stolen and the breeder knew this.

    Having said that I still would never get a dog from a backyard breeder or puppy mill as they are much worse...I would rather get a dog from Rescue (which I have) and save a life.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  7. #37
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    Yes when a few of us had related dogs with elbow dysplasia a letter was written with supporting vet evidence but it got us nowhere. The breeder basically told us to prove it wasnt as a result of incorrect nutrition and exercise. The ANKC did notify them of the complaint but it went no further. I do think things have moved on a bit from them and stricter guidlines are in place with some compulosry testing and the requirement for pups to be healthy when sold unless a health problem is known and there is agreement..

    These days I have a combination of rescue from a working dog rescue and purchase of purpose bred working dogs.

    My philosophy is that if you breed a dog you unsderstand what ethical breeding is and you dont bring more pups into the world without there being a very good reason.

    The whole betterment of the breed thing has always struck me in some cases as odd especially when you see breeders trying to breed to a fashion that is winning in the show ring. I think about some of the odd German Shepherds I have seen and the very ****genous types of dogs where the ear set has to be a certain way, and height is within certain limits etc. I am not sure what any of that has to do with health. One thing I like about working bred Border collies is the big range of coats and ear sets. The main goal being to breed a powerful, well structured working dog with good instincts. No one really cares about ear set or having a massive heavy coat, in fact short coats are good in this environment. Many of the male working Border collies are quite a bit taller than the ANKC standard and many really look nothing like the showbreds. How on earth did we diverge so far?

    However paying ridiculous amounts of money for 'designer cross' with no health testing at all really strikes me as slightly crazy. This has really been a totally unregulated breeding activity and does need regulating. Over in WA they recently pulled 12 breeding dogs from a pitch black, stinking underground bunker via a manhole in the ground, where they had been kept hidden and breeding designer crosses. I bet the buyers of the pups never suspected a thing or probably the pet shops. The breeder already had a 10 year ban for cruelty hence moving underground.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-08-2014 at 10:13 AM.

  8. #38

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    I agree with Kalacreek regarding the betterment of a breed reason - bettering them for what exactly? The Dobermanns I saw that held Grand Champion titles were not better Dobermanns in my opinion... Many of the other breeds actually border on cruelty in my opinion.

    Firstly though, I haven't agreed to breed Sammy yet, I'll know in 12+months. If it was for money, I would have accepted a stud fee and even then that would just help to reduce my losses. The only instances I know of where people actually make money from breeding animals include practices I consider to be abhorrent, such as puppy mills. Do you have any idea of how much it costs to have your dog tested physically? Or how much I have spent on training? Or how much I spend on feeding him? Sammy just obtained his latest certificate in Scent Sport yesterday, a course that set me back well over $300, and that's not including the petrol costs to drive 2 hours there and back every Saturday. And Sammy has been doing some sort of training at least once a week since I got him 4.5 years ago so you try working those figures out and then tell me how many puppies I would need to sell to make money...

    What Sammy brings to my life and to the lives of others who want to own him (or a puppy of his) is something else that we obviously view to be extremely valuable. I am considering breeding him because the older he gets and the more time I spend at different training clubs the more I realise he is quite a different dog. You don't have to believe me or take my word for it but I have had a number of professional trainers and vets make the same remark. He doesn't work for food, he wants a job and he only listens to his owner. Yesterday, during his test, there were 2 bitches on heat at the club. I didn't even know about them but the Owner came over and could not stop going on about how amazing he thought Sammy was for working through that level of distraction. We were in a class with 2 other dogs, both reactive Staffies there for other behavioural classes as well and again, no problems from my dog.

    We love him because his pack drive is so high, higher than any other dog I've ever seen, because he is so intelligent, because he's beautiful (and yes that's important to me), because he's so healthy and his lines are so long-lived compared to the average for pure Dobermanns, because he's so athletically capable, because he can trust people 100%, because he's resilient and even though bad things have happened to him he hasn't developed issues, because he wants to understand people, because he's loyal, because he's protective but bombproof, because so many people that I respect have told me so and because frankly, for my next dog, nothing else will do.

    I've been spoiled. There's no guarantee that any of his puppies will be another Sammy and that's one of the reasons we have not considered breeding him before. But now, I've met someone who has high quality, tested dogs, who is knowledgeable and who will let me play a lead role in determining where the puppies go. A GSD cross Rottweiler appeals to me because there are things about Sammy I would change if I could and this is potentially one way to make a more perfect pet in the next generation. The bitch has a GSD tail. Rotties and Dobes have traditionally always had their tails docked. You own one now and you will quickly see how much damage they do to themselves and others with their tails left intact. I'm not saying I want to dock their tails, but in the next generation, I want to introduce a breed that has always had a tail and so the tail was part of the standard and better quality. She wags her tail low, she doesn't hit everything and I believe this would be an improvement. GSD's are very intelligent, trainable and protective so I don't think I'm risking any of the personality traits I value most. So are Rottweilers. Sammy has a 'cuter' face than pure Dobes because of the Rottweiler in him. The shepherds are working line and so their coats are short for shepherds but still much longer than a Doberman. The Rottie component will keep that coat from getting too long whilst hopefully also passing on that cuteness that Rottie cross Shepherds and Dobermanns have.

  9. #39
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    99bottles,

    Your posts are nothing but rants trying to justify you wanting to breed your cross breed dog and producing some super cross breed. Your posts are rather long... boring and make no sense...especially when you spent $300 to teach him to smell...couldn't he smell before please come down off your high horse and realize he is a cross breed and nothing more...there are plenty just like him in pounds and shelters..get him desexed.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    99bottles,

    Your posts are nothing but rants trying to justify you wanting to breed your cross breed dog and producing some super cross breed. Your posts are rather long... boring and make no sense...especially when you spent $300 to teach him to smell...couldn't he smell before please come down off your high horse and realize he is a cross breed and nothing more...there are plenty just like him in pounds and shelters..get him desexed.
    I'm guessing you haven't been to too many pounds then? I mean you've never met my dog so it's hard for you to make a claim that there are plenty of other dogs in the pound just like him. Or are all dogs the same as far as your concerned if they're not purebred?

    I'm sorry my posts don't make sense to you. Unfortunately I suppose if you think what I meant was that we teach our dogs to smell lol it would all seem confusing. In case you're interested, the sport is teaching your dog to identify and locate scents for you and then indicate - like the dogs in airports etc. We've done ANKC and IPO tracking but this was something else for us to learn and it's been great fun.

    I'm not aiming to breed a new breed or a new super cross breed. I'm considering breeding a healthy, tested dog to another, with the goal of replicating particular traits that of course I could never argue are 100% unique to him but they're certainly not common.

    You haven't provided any points for consideration or any sort of substantiated argument for why we need to stick to purebred dogs, or why what I propose is wrong. You've even posted about the trials and tribulations you have faced with breeders of purebred dogs, so what exactly is it that you want?

    Anyway you're never going to please everyone but that doesn't always mean you're wrong. Hopefully I don't come across as facetious, I appreciate you taking the time to tell me your opinion on the matter.

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