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Thread: dog punishment

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by goggles View Post
    dog ripped up a pillow earlier this morning and my dad smacked it across the nose. I've already explained to him that the pup wouldn't understand but he did it anyway and my mom already has a roll of newspaper ready to hit him with in case my dog does something.

    what can you do when you live with really ignorant, selfish people? i feel like ordering a sjambok or a bullwhip and cracking it over their heads several times. with some people violence is the only way you can get through, even if they are the people who gave life to you.

    anyway, the dog doesn't come now. you know when you say "come here" and then they hit the dog. and he usually sleeps on my lap when i'm typing in front of the computer and now he sleeps a little bit away from me. he'll get over it and its no big deal but he's my dog and i'm responsible for how he turns out and if my dog bites someone when he gets older they'll blame me. that's the worst part really. and its not my fault. its theirs for confusing the heck out of my dog. how am i going to punish him now?

    anyway, never mind the dog, training humans, what's the strategy? i can't always be around to look after him and even if I am they won't listen to me without my resorting to violence. what can i do before pinning a couple of old people to the back bumper of a car and dragging them around the neighbourhood?
    Gosh that sounds awfully frustrating!! I had a similar issue with my Dad. Dodge used to often poo on the driveway and my Dad would drag her up to it and push her nose in it even if she did it hours earlier! I continuously told my Dad that doing that isn't going to work and it will just confuse her... he wouldn't listen for a long time, but he hasn't done it for a long time now so i'm guessing I finally got through to him.
    Other than showing them studies that prove what you're saying, i'm really not sure how to help Its a tough situation to be in, thats for sure! I really hope you can find a way to resolve it! Would they stop if they knew what hitting a dog can do to it psychologically? If my Dad was in charge of training Koda and had used his usual harsh methods... Koda would probably be a nervous/aggressive wreck around men. He is naturally nervous around men, but he settles down once he see's they're okay.

  2. #12
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    Education is the best tool for ignorance
    Explain to them what you've just explained to us

  3. #13
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    how do you punish a dog for doing something he does he shouldn't do while you are away? eg. rips up a pillow while i'm out.
    You get a big piece of paper, and a big red texta, and you draw a nice big octagon like a Stop sign and in the middle of it you put

    BANG
    HEAD
    HERE

    and then you bang your head.

    If you don't catch your dog in the act of the wrong thing - you can't punish the dog at all, they will never make the connection.

    Imagine you have a 2 year old human child and they stain your grandmother's favourite carpet - do you think rubbing their nose in it 3 hours later and scolding them will make any difference to the next carpet they encounter?

    So with the pillow chewing.

    1. have something else the dog can chew - eg a kong stuffed with frozen food. Roast chicken scraps, or kibble mixed with yogurt etc.

    2. foundation exercise - collar grab - for this you need to have the dog wearing a collar and be comfortable with you grabbing it.

    3. put a pillow where your puppy can reach it. if the puppy goes and sniffs it - do a collar grab, and gently move your dog away. Wait three seconds then let your dog go - to see what they do. Repeat as necessary. Maybe five times - or five minutes - and then put the pillow where the dog cannot access it.

    It's important here that no food or play or scolding is involved. Or the dog can make the wrong connection - eg go sniff pillow to get owners attention and a treat. You don't want that either.

    4. when you go out, make sure the doors to all the rooms with yummy chewy things are shut, put all pillows and shoes and undies out of reach.

    5. Put kong in dog crate and give the dog the permission word to get the kong eg "geddit".

    I have also been known to put some vics vapour rub on things I don't want sniffed or chewed. Needs replenishing daily though.

    If you're really worried about furniture destruction - shut the door on the crate. Helps if the dog has heaps of good memories of crate time eg gets dinner and kongs and practice time in there. ie you've crate trained your dog to view that as a safe and comforting place to be.

    When you're crate training - if your dog barks a lot - put a sheet of cardboard over the top and then a big sheet or cover over that - so the dog can't see out of the crate and because of the cardboard eaves cannot grab the cover and pull it in either. If the dog is quiet - lift up some of the sheet. If the dog remains quiet, lift some more of it up... ie crate training.

    I didn't know this when my dog was a puppy so she got shoved in the crate when I needed to make dinner or wash the dishes (boiling hot water in the kitchen and she always lay down right behind me - trip hazard) or going out. There was some yelling and complaining but I never let her out while she was yelling so she figured out... she needed to be quiet.

    When I'm training - I use a "non reward marker" (NRM) for "you're not going to get a treat for that - try something else" - often I say "oops", sometimes I say "really - what are you doing?" and I have a "keep trying" marker for you're not going to get a treat for that but you're nearly there - mostly I say "nearly". Eg the hot and cold game for finding things.

    If I say "yes" - I have to pay (give her a treat).

    The NRM words and tone can function much like the word "No" said nice and calmly or even a hiss - If she is doing something I want her to stop ie finding her own fun doing something I don't like - I will say "I don't think so" in that tone... and I go get her (collar grab). And when she comes with me I praise and pat her.

    Tho for some reason - when I collar grab my dog, she often drags me to her crate by the collar. Or leans on me if there is no crate. Not sure what she's thinking about when she does that - but maybe she's looking for comfort.

    It feels like an apology or seeking reassurance cos she thought she was doing ok. But ignoring me when I call her - is never ok, not even for rat hunting.

    So it is really important you stop or prevent your dog from finding unacceptable fun without you or your permission (eg ripping up pillows is SO MUCH FUN).

    And that you train what you do want instead. Eg chewing a kong.

    You train your parents the same way as the dog.

    I would imagine that getting the bullwhip out with them would be about as effective as smacking your dog around. Ie it's no way to train anything but avoidance of you.

    You supervise your parents initially, you limit their opportunity to do the wrong thing (eg crate your dog when you're out), you praise and compliment them when they do right.

    You might have to tell them stories like about the toddler and the carpet - and they might not get it straight away.

    I tried (when I didn't know any better) to hit my dog with a newspaper for biting something she shouldn't - and she caught the newspaper roll - nicked off with it and then shredded it. I figured that was not the message I wanted her to get out of it. So that was the last time I used the newspaper on her.

    I also tried smacking and scolding things I wanted her to avoid like the bin, but in the end I don't think she got it really. She probably would get it now, because if I scold anything or sound the least tiny bit angry with someone or their naughty dog at the park - she joins in with some serious scolding of her own.

    But she gets super excited if I get the fly swat out and try to kill a fly or just randomly swat with it. I really don't think she would avoid the fly because of it...

    If you can find anything written about dog training eg Steve Courtney's website and dog star daily has loads of good stuff, print a couple of relevant bits out and leave them lying around.

    10 Reasons to Crate Train Your Dog! | Steve Courtney Dog Training

    you may need to sign up to get access to the digital dog training text book but it's worth it. And you can just print out the bits you want your parents to learn (in big font), and leave a page or two lying around for them.
    Dog Training Digital Textbook | Dog Star Daily

    teaching leave it.
    Training Your Dog to Drop It and Leave It. Original Version
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 01-03-2014 at 04:12 PM.

  4. #14
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    The best way i trained my OH not to leave stuff around within reach of Zeus when he went out was the day when i went to work early and he went out to visit a mate later in the day.
    He forgot to put the packet of toilet rolls away and as i came home first i was greeted by bits of toilet rolls everywhere.

    I salvaged what i could, (complete with teeth marks and slobber),and told him that he would have to use them to wipe his a**e with as he couldn't remember to put the bloody things out of the dogs reach.

    He never forgot to put things out of Zeus's reach after that.
    If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in your pocket and then giving Fido only two of them. ~Phil Pastoret

  5. #15
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    Ok guys, i tested this theory of the dog not knowing what they have done wrong if you dont catch them in the act just yesterday and i reckon it's bollocks.

    The Goofs have been a bit destructive of late ... boredom i guess. Gardens have copped a flogging ! (yes my new plants )

    Anyway driving home i wondered what todays misdemeanors where going to be and how would i react if they have broken off anymore plants... because i myself have preached the 'gotta catch em in the act' thing to many people. So the garden was untouched but i found they...or one of them had ripped a towel of the line and ruined it which is something they never do . So i calmly took it inside and jut stood there with it. No words spoken , no angry face, nothing. Just stood there with it in my hands.

    Both of them curled their tails up ,held their heads low and slowly grovelled their way outside.

    They knew damn well they'd done something wrong.!!!!

    They went unpunished this time but if it happens again..... look out !!


    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
    Education is important, but big biceps are more importanter ...
    DONT SIC YOUR DOGMA ON ME !

  6. #16
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    I've learnt to blame myself instead of the dogs if something gets destroyed. I do a quick check before I go out. With our foster pup here, I also usually close the bedroom doors. When I go out at night I'll leave my bedroom door open, but then I have to check that anything that can be eaten or chewed is put away.

    I don't bother trying to train them to leave things that can be chewed or ripped up alone. They rarely do it when we're around so I doubt such training would stick when they're left alone.

    I only use the spray bottle to prevent my dog getting too friendly with visitors or to stop the foster pup from digging in the bedding. Neither of them are terrified of it, but it makes them stop what they were doing.

    Time out is an excellent, non-confrontational punishment to use. Works exactly like the naughty corner with toddlers, but it needs to be very short, like under a minute or they'll forget what they were in there for. You have to make sure you stay calm, leaving a lead attached to then inside works well for that. And it's important that you allow the dog a chance to prove that they have learnt after a punishment. Simple example, you say 'no' when a pup mouths you, then offer your hand again and praise if they lick or ignore the hand. I do this after time out too. Present them with the same situation to give them an opportunity to succeed. I believe that without that step punishment is rarely effective.
    Last edited by Beloz; 01-03-2014 at 09:19 PM.

  7. #17
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    Both of them curled their tails up ,held their heads low and slowly grovelled their way outside.

    They knew damn well they'd done something wrong.!!!!
    yes but no idea what they'd done wrong... they just knew you were upset about something. Maybe the towel had been naughty?

    And maybe you need a few of these
    AussieDog.com.au :: Products

    shouldn't be too hard to make your own out of seatbelt and bungee and maybe old towels...

  8. #18
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    A dog knows when you are angry but not why if you get the timing wrong. Timing and repitition is everything. If you get it wrong you could be reinforcing or punishing something completely different to what you think you are.

  9. #19
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    my old dogs where easy to punish,
    just got to know the right tone to growl in and they would hit the deck and never do again......

  10. #20
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    Firstly I Don't punish my dogs and I never hit them either...I've seen the results of this type of treatment. When Chloe was younger she ripped up part of my GSD boy's new Mattress that cost me $120 and a few other things... I said to her with one finger raised "did you do that" then I said "NO" or "Barrrrr" which sounds like a growl and showed her what she did...the same when she would pull clothes off the line.

    They all stop this behaviour in time except hole digging (that's another story) so it's a matter of being patient and of cause keeping everything out of their reach.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

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