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Thread: mauled by own dog

  1. #11
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    - Modern Training - dogs are furchildren, don't stress them out, don't hurt their feelings, don't make them do anything they don't want to do, no correction, no punishment!
    Gawd - I don't see this at my dog club, or the GSD club that trains at KCC park in Victoria. There's no balance. The dogs are frequently punished, corrected when they're doing what the owner wants, confused, and rarely rewarded for doing what the owner does want.

    I know there are those lovey dovey dog trainers running classes at four times the cost of dog club memberships and they're "all positive" which means they don't understand the science. And they're not helping but most of the ones I know in Adelaide won't work with angry or aggressive dogs - they recognise those are outside their scope and they do recommend PTS - much to the frustration of the owners who often cause the problems or at least fail to recognise them and set boundaries. These people do the same with their children. It's horrible.

    Children and dogs are opportunists and hedonists - they will always take immediate reward over what's in their best interests long term. So if the parent lets the child or dog make the decisions the whole home will turn to hell.

    So a post that talks about all punishment and correction with no balance on reward, praise and direction - isn't any better than the lovey dovey stuff.

    Otherwise I agree with the rest of Nekhbet's post. I'm pretty sure any correction/punishment there would be immediately followed up with reward for the desired behaviour.

    I have seen some really big critters trained entirely with reward / no reward plus managing the environment to limit the opportunity for dangerous or unwanted behaviour. And then as the behaviour is closer and closer to classically conditioned, the environment is modified and opened up until you have an albatross that will carry a message from ship to ship despite being pierced through the body and a lung by a sea eagle. Go Bob Bailey.

  2. #12
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    Some asshole 'owners' deserve a good mauling .... dog fighters come to mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
    Education is important, but big biceps are more importanter ...
    DONT SIC YOUR DOGMA ON ME !

  3. #13
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    Yeah, if it was only the owners who get hurt. I remember a case (ages ago) where a women starved her GSD almost to death - and then left her toddler alone with it.

  4. #14
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    Children and dogs are opportunists and hedonists - they will always take immediate reward over what's in their best interests long term. So if the parent lets the child or dog make the decisions the whole home will turn to hell

    Oh my this says it so well. I teach five year olds and see this every year. I have remarked to my assistant that certain children would be very trying to live with. They learn very quickly what is reasonable behaviour at school but oh my what I see when they are with their parents at times.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Di_dee1 View Post
    Dog almighty. I can't believe the naivety of this statement. So dangerous too.

    Any dog of any breed or x breed can turn in the wrong combination of circumstances. There are always rogues too.
    Can I ask how many Dobes, Rotties or GSDs you have owned...I'm not talking about backyard or puppy mill dogs...but papered dogs. Have you ever been a member of these clubs and done obedience training with these clubs...well I have and I what I said is true. Very sad the GSDL is the only club doing obedience training now.

    Don't know about the backyard or puppy mill dogs or crosses of these breeds...as anything could happen with them... backyarders and puppy millers don't care about temperament do they.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    Can I ask how many Dobes, Rotties or GSDs you have owned...I'm not talking about backyard or puppy mill dogs...but papered dogs. Have you ever been a member of these clubs and done obedience training with these clubs...well I have and I what I said is true. Very sad the GSDL is the only club doing obedience training now.

    Don't know about the backyard or puppy mill dogs or crosses of these breeds...as anything could happen with them... backyarders and puppy millers don't care about temperament do they.
    Now I don't like getting into arguments but i really disagree with you. Whether a dog has papers or not, and whether it was bred for a good temperament or not ANY dog can choose to turn if they want to. I agree with Di_dee1, the naivety of your opinion is unbelievable and quite unnerving. No matter how much specific breeding for temperament has happened, and no matter how much training and socialisation has happened there are still situations in which ANY dog could turn, and i think every dog owner needs to understand this.

  7. #17
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    I'm not talking about backyard or puppy mill dogs...but papered dogs. Have you ever been a member of these clubs and done obedience training with these clubs...well I have and I what I said is true. Very sad the GSDL is the only club doing obedience training now.
    Dogman - in your original post - you didn't say that. But I have listened to Val Bonney talk about a GSD that probably was papered, it turned - but it had a brain tumor. Anything can happen - from - as I wrote - kids stabbing the dog with a pencil to dogs getting brain injuries.

    I know a couple of Rotties at my obedience dog club - one of them is one of the most gorgeous well behaved dog I have met - she's ANKC pedigree - I'd be happy to own a dog just like her. The other is probably a BYB special and has attacked several other dogs at the club including mine.

    It now needs to be in a wire crate for everyone's protection and the owner's dreams of competing with that dog are not possible because it eyeballs dogs across the field and attacks them. It didn't help that the owner thought this was "just playful" and did nothing to set boundaries on what kind of play was acceptable with other dogs. So I wouldn't blame the dog (genetics) alone for the problems.

    As with children - "just play" doesn't mean "anything goes". Or you will find the toddler skewered with a home carved arrow.

    There is a GSD specific obedience club in Adelaide and another run by the Rottweiller breeders club too. And I've seen a Victorian GSD club and I would not recommend their methods to anyone - all punishment and no praise ever. How is the dog supposed to know when it is doing the right thing if the owner never tells it. Never seen so many miserable dogs in one place. Except maybe the pound and at least those ones looked excited and hopeful.

    You can't generalise about the breed. Yes a well bred and well raised dog can be a great family pet, most breeds can meet this category. With any given breed - even the ANKC breeders have their bad apples and there are also plenty of irresponsible breeders who don't care and just a few that aim to breed "guard dogs" that will act scary to keep "bad people" away in "bad neighbourhoods". And these "guard dogs" often bite their owners - because the owners treat them badly to "keep em mean". You reap what you sow with dogs like this, and sometimes there are innocent people (or children) hurt too.

    But back to the opening post - some dogs can kill their owners. Doesn't happen very often, and there is usually something else going on - it never comes out of "nowhere". There's plenty of youtube of babies with dogs who are making all sorts of leave me alone signals but not given the opportunity to walk away from a baby behaving inappropriately.

  8. #18
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    Brain Tumors... backyarders...children and poor temperament aside I have more chance of being hit by lightning than my dogs ever turning on me...and that's a fact.

    I wish I had a dollar for every time over the years that someone who has never owned the breeds I have has said..."oh that breed turns on you" or "you can't trust them" and my favorite "that breed has something wrong with it's brain and will snap and attack you".

    Many years ago when I told someone I had a Dobermann...the first thing they said was "they turn on you" and when I said have you ever owned one the answer was no. So I said who told you they turn on you...the media he said. Some people do get killed by dogs but you can't say all dogs could turn on you...because it's just not true and if some people think this way then they shouldn't own a dog.
    If a dog of a certain breed bites someone...do you blame the whole breed...there are no bad dogs...just bad owners.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    Brain Tumors... backyarders...children and poor temperament aside I have more chance of being hit by lightning than my dogs ever turning on me...and that's a fact.

    I wish I had a dollar for every time over the years that someone who has never owned the breeds I have has said..."oh that breed turns on you" or "you can't trust them" and my favorite "that breed has something wrong with it's brain and will snap and attack you".

    Many years ago when I told someone I had a Dobermann...the first thing they said was "they turn on you" and when I said have you ever owned one the answer was no. So I said who told you they turn on you...the media he said. Some people do get killed by dogs but you can't say all dogs could turn on you...because it's just not true and if some people think this way then they shouldn't own a dog.
    If a dog of a certain breed bites someone...do you blame the whole breed...there are no bad dogs...just bad owners.
    People get the idea that particular breeds are more likely to bite than others simply from the media which is full of lies.

    Dogman, from your posts you seem to be implying that you totally trust your dogs 100% to never bite a human. Does that mean you would leave your dog unsupervised with a toddler? No responsible dog owner would do that.

    So you're saying that I shouldn't own dogs because i take into account all possibilities regarding my dogs behaviour and how i behave around my own dog? It would be a massive shock to me if Dodge or Koda ever bit me, but forgetting the whole "this is my furbaby that loves me" thing, they are both animals and can choose to bite someone if they wish to. Its a bit like people... most people would avoid getting to a fight with another person... but given the right circumstances anyone would punch another person in the face.

    I believe we are going to have to agree to disagree.

  10. #20
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    I just hope Dogman never has to find out the hard way. Complacency is a big problem with dog owners of any breed or cross breed.
    We can not supervise every second.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

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