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Thread: Who's responsable?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pawfectionist View Post
    Kalacreek, I was referring to the situation given. If they were playing and then a fight broke out is very different to dogs coming up and attacking a dog for no reason and having the dog retaliate to defend itself.
    But surely it would depend on the interaction between the dogs. I was just questioning the assumption that the larger dogs would be at fault. The smaller dog might start it and you know how hard it can be to break up a dog fight once it starts. I have seen play turn into a fight and usually it is the smaller dog that comes off worse but I dont see that the owner of the larger dogs should always take the blame.
    I have seen small dogs actually start the fight after the play got a bit heated and neither owner could call their dog off.

    In the case stated the woman knew her young dog didnt have a recall and she also new it had a medical condition and she didnt know the other dogs and she knew it was smaller. She was definitely not being responsible in the care of her own dog and it would be so easy to blame the other dogs if something went wrong because they were bigger.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-30-2013 at 10:19 PM.

  2. #12
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    But I still think asking the other owner to call their dogs off was a reasonable request.

    And I much rather they ask me to call my dog off than do the silent grabbing their dog to put them on lead at the last moment. Or worse. I once had another dog owner walking his dog off lead throw a rock at my dog because she was stalking his dog. He never said a word to me!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    But I still think asking the other owner to call their dogs off was a reasonable request.

    And I much rather they ask me to call my dog off than do the silent grabbing their dog to put them on lead at the last moment. Or worse. I once had another dog owner walking his dog off lead throw a rock at my dog because she was stalking his dog. He never said a word to me!

    Yes I agree it was a reasonable request however I think one just has to make sure that you have your own dog under control at all times because strangers can be a mixed bag. I personally never let my dogs interact with another dog without permission and a chat with the owner first. I never take my dogs off lead without a rock solid recall first. I practice this all the time. My dogs know that even if other dogs are wildly playing around them that they do not interact without permission. I guess because I trial my dogs a lot this is not negotiable.

    I have had a friend with a small exuberant dog that was off leash in an on leash only situation and the dog playfully ran up and jumped in a rotties face that was walking on leash and had appeared suddenly. The small dog was instanty grabbed and shaken. It happened so fast. The vet could not save the little dog. The owner of the small dog wanted all vet bills payed and the rottie put down. It was hard for her to see that some of the resonsibility for what happened also lay with her. She felt that because her dog was small and friendly she was 100% in the right. It really was a horrible situation for everyone.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    But surely it would depend on the interaction between the dogs. I was just questioning the assumption that the larger dogs would be at fault. The smaller dog might start it and you know how hard it can be to break up a dog fight once it starts. I have seen play turn into a fight and usually it is the smaller dog that comes off worse but I dont see that the owner of the larger dogs should always take the blame.
    I have seen small dogs actually start the fight after the play got a bit heated and neither owner could call their dog off.

    In the case stated the woman knew her young dog didnt have a recall and she also new it had a medical condition and she didnt know the other dogs and she knew it was smaller. She was definitely not being responsible in the care of her own dog and it would be so easy to blame the other dogs if something went wrong because they were bigger.
    Kalacreek, I feel that you are reading too much into my original comment. My point being that the owner was concerned about her dog. Regardless of the intentions of each dog, if a dog injures another dog (regardless of size of either dog) it is considered the owner of the attacking dog's fault. This being that there was no major provocation from the other dog. If both dogs were injured then it would be down to legalities of the situation and "he said, she said". If the injured dog provoked or acted the dog first then it would also be down to witnesses and recounts of the event.

    And I also stated that it is the woman's responsibility to keep her dog safe. The fact that the other dog owner refused to call their dogs back would fall on the side of the woman in this situation.

    ETA: Obviously this is my opinion only and that there is no legal backing to my statements, simply what I know of law and dog ownership laws. I don't believe that the bigger dog should always be to blame. I would hate for the incorrect rumour to spread, as it is not the case.

  5. #15
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    I never let my dog go up to a dog on lead when she's off lead because that is asking for trouble and rude. So if she would ever disobey me in that that situation and got badly bitten, I would consider that totally my fault.

    I do assume that dogs off lead are allowed to interact with other dogs unless I am told otherwise. And I am ok with other dog owners having the same assumption about my dog even though I've had to go through some trouble managing that to avoid scuffles and sometimes wish other dogs would ignore her. I haven't had to ask others to call their dogs though as mine has become much better now at walking away even if followed and the other dog inevitably gives up quickly.

  6. #16
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    The whole question of etiquette has been a problem off and on.I am forgiving when we do our morning beach walk its not a busy place and there are young dogs who are still learning manners and recall. Having a BC who has taken FOREVER to have reliable recall under some distractions and who is capable of shaking her wet and sandy coat when standing next to someone I try to be forgiving. ( mainly when we are heading to the car park and she doesn't want to go home. She comes but has strategies.
    She is not at all sociable when on the ball and as a nearly 2 year old getting very grumpy with dogs that belt up to her either barking or pushing into her face space.
    Some are very annoying even from my perspective! There is one particular small poodle who is particularly rude and now Maggie bares her teeth and looks damn annoyed until the poodle finally runs away. Last time it happened I was wondering whether i should apologise for her grumpiness or not seeing as the poodle is thoroughly obnoxious and doesn't learn day after day. I didn't.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pawfectionist View Post
    Kalacreek, I feel that you are reading too much into my original comment. My point being that the owner was concerned about her dog. And I also stated that it is the woman's responsibility to keep her dog safe. The fact that the other dog owner refused to call their dogs back would fall on the side of the woman in this situation.

    .
    I agree the man was uncooperative, but I disagree that it was entirely his responsibility. The laws state that all owners should be in complete control of their dogs when the dog is let off its leash. Yes you are right, if his dogs had decided to attack he likely would be responsible if it was unprovoked. However as the situation stood that seemed unlikely in which case it was really up to the woman to be able to retrieve her dog and hopefully work on the dogs recall before letting it off again or at least explain and get agreement from the other owner in the eventuality of a similar scenario prior to release.

    I guess I just have had a few occurences where my dogs have been attacked by small aggressive dogs and they are fortuantely tolerant dogs and not keen on aggressing back, they would rather avoid, but the owners of the small dogs seemed to assume that it is somehow the responsibility of the owner of the bigger dog if things go bad and have often been quite unapologetic and even abusive if your dog dares to growl in defense. The owner of one such small fiend acutually thought it was just wanting to play. I told him that one day his little darling would pick on the wrong dog to try out its version of play.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-31-2013 at 04:05 PM.

  8. #18

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    As far as I am concerned - the person that owns the dog is the only one that is totally responsible for the dog.

    I bet if the owner had asked the guy with the other dogs to help her catch her pup so that she could put it on a lead - there would have been a totally different outcome.

    It really is all to do with the way we handle and say things !

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    I agree the man was uncooperative, but I disagree that it was entirely his responsibility. The laws state that all owners should be in complete control of their dogs when the dog is let off its leash. Yes you are right, if his dogs had decided to attack he likely would be responsible if it was unprovoked. However as the situation stood that seemed unlikely in which case it was really up to the woman to be able to retrieve her dog and hopefully work on the dogs recall before letting it off again or at least explain and get agreement from the other owner in the eventuality of a similar scenario prior to release.

    I guess I just have had a few occurences where my dogs have been attacked by small aggressive dogs and they are fortuantely tolerant dogs and not keen on aggressing back, they would rather avoid, but the owners of the small dogs seemed to assume that it is somehow the responsibility of the owner of the bigger dog if things go bad and have often been quite unapologetic and even abusive if your dog dares to growl in defense. The owner of one such small fiend acutually thought it was just wanting to play. I told him that one day his little darling would pick on the wrong dog to try out its version of play.
    I completely agree Kalacreek. I have been in that situation too and it is unfair for the little dogs to not take any accountability. But that's the problem. The owners with the problem little dogs have little problem dogs because they don't think they are the problem, hence the vicious cycle. The responsible owners with the little dogs don't have the problem little dogs.

    It's a lesson learned for the friend...hopefully...

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