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Thread: The debate: Desexing at a young age affects growth

  1. #11
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    Ive read several studies, that suggest leaving it later is best. Ive read several studies that say it makes no difference.
    So you end up having to decide yourself.
    I go for male dogs, and prefer to keep them entire for working. Non working, 18 months desex.

  2. #12
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    I think there are potentially a lot of confounding factors. This could include breed difference, the fact that the metabollic rate of a dog is reduced by sterilisation so sterilised dogs probably on average tends to be fatter (although this is totally avoidable). This can lead to health issues like cruciate ruptures etc.

    It is also possible that the dogs that are left entire in any particular breed tend to be the better quality dogs.

    I am sure there are effects as you dont mess with a dogs endocrine system without there being some affect, negative or positive. Mine are all working dogs and sterilisation doesnt seem to have affected them negatively in anyway that I can see, health wise or ability to work well. They are not puppy like in their behaviour and are intelligent and very focussed when working and have all grown in to well behaved mature animals. However very early neuter (before 6 months minimum) does make me uneasy. I have been lucky with the rescue I have got my dogs from. They allow their owners to bring their adopted puppies back at 6 months and on request they allowed me to spey at 12 months my bitch and neuter my dog at 20 months.

  3. #13
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    Circumstances have played a part in my decision also. I live near a breeder, so a bitch on heat nearby twice a year...... that was causing wonderlust in Brian.
    The smell of his urine as a entire male, was gross, that played a part.
    Having a large male, strutting around with his knot out frequently, is unattractive.
    Ejeculate is unattractive to clean up also. on 2 occasions.
    That we live rurally, and its offleash everywhere. so access to females, even the neutered variety had him in a spin.
    My female bitch, who is desexed, would of injured him potentially, after trying his luck.

    That's why, 18 months was C day.
    And none of these reasons are to do with what is good for brian's bone development you'll notice. Other factors do play a part.

  4. #14
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    Basic physiology states that 'sex' hormones are also growth hormones. Removal of those hormones would probably have some effect on the growth and outcome of growth would it not?

    Logically of course it would.

    But then the vets berate you with tales of disease, horror, death and all manner of horrible things if you don't lop off your dogs internal organs. There is a risk of death and permanent injury with all surgery, yes even the measly old 'desexing'.

    I want everyone to watch what actually happens during a spey surgery. Remember this has to be under pristine surgical conditions too to make sure your pet does not develop a full, systemic infection.
    UTCVM Dog Spay - YouTube

  5. #15
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    Hey Nekhbet,

    Sorry I watched it now...no wonder it's so expensive but still necessary.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  6. #16
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    I helped my friend spey my first dog as she is a vet and we went in to her practice on the weekend and I kept an eye on the anasthetic. I cant say that it scarred me for life. Everything has its risks. One of my entire bitches developed a full blown pyometra so quickly, that was way more scary, so nearly lost her.

    There are also the risks during pregnancy, I recently had a breeder friend lose her bitch to a ruptured uterus another person I know with an oops litter needed an emergency ceaser on their bitch. People who havent managed their bitches in the way you need to during oestrus are also fairly common so ooops litters and pregnancy problems abound. We had an entire bitch that spent a lot of her time having phantom pregnancies and cuddling toys and getting quite depressed. We finally speyed her which resulted in a much happier dog.

    So I think there are risks on both sides. I guess it all comes down to what you as the owner decides is the highest risk.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-23-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #17
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    Sorry I watched it now...no wonder it's so expensive but still necessary.
    It's what should be seen by all dog/cat owners. I've helped fish out tricky uteri before with the hook (I started a B.V.Sc) and it's a bit nerve racking as you're working on a living, breathing creature. We've become so washed with the 'owner' side of the advertising with desexing we need to see what the 'vet' side is like so we can make a properly educated decision about it.

    There are ways to treat Pyo non surgically but most vets head straight for the operating table - which to me with a bitch that already has a big infection is a massive risk.

    I've been a vet nurse and I've seen both sides. There are plenty more cancers, diseases and problems desexed dogs can get that well outweigh undesexed dogs. Desexing has become a fashion here in Australia, it is not the same all over the world by a long shot. We then use it as an excuse for behavior, containment and physical issues which are all managed by proper husbandry and raising/breeding, NOT by simply chopping out the sex organs. I'm not against desexing but it's too quickly rushed at here and the pressure people are put through to have it done borders on harrassment and bullying sometimes. You can own entire dogs without roaming, fighting and pregnancy's, sheesh I have two entire bitches here who are best friends at the moment because they're both on heat. I've now also been lumped with an entire male dog over the holidays and he's not carrying on or bashing the crate/door in to get to them.

    If escape, fighting and bad behavior concern you look very closely at your choice of breed and lines. That is the biggest dictator of your problems to come, not testicles and ovaries.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekhbet View Post
    It's what should be seen by all dog/cat owners. I've helped fish out tricky uteri before with the hook (I started a B.V.Sc) and it's a bit nerve racking as you're working on a living, breathing creature. We've become so washed with the 'owner' side of the advertising with desexing we need to see what the 'vet' side is like so we can make a properly educated decision about it.

    There are ways to treat Pyo non surgically but most vets head straight for the operating table - which to me with a bitch that already has a big infection is a massive risk.

    I've been a vet nurse and I've seen both sides. There are plenty more cancers, diseases and problems desexed dogs can get that well outweigh undesexed dogs. Desexing has become a fashion here in Australia, it is not the same all over the world by a long shot. We then use it as an excuse for behavior, containment and physical issues which are all managed by proper husbandry and raising/breeding, NOT by simply chopping out the sex organs. I'm not against desexing but it's too quickly rushed at here and the pressure people are put through to have it done borders on harrassment and bullying sometimes. You can own entire dogs without roaming, fighting and pregnancy's, sheesh I have two entire bitches here who are best friends at the moment because they're both on heat. I've now also been lumped with an entire male dog over the holidays and he's not carrying on or bashing the crate/door in to get to them.

    If escape, fighting and bad behavior concern you look very closely at your choice of breed and lines. That is the biggest dictator of your problems to come, not testicles and ovaries.
    I think there are so many factors that come in to all of this, it is just not that simple. Personally I have never been harassed by vets to sterilise. They have given me their opinions and I have made my choices. I think the research is not entirely conclusive either way.

    With a couple of specialist surgical vets in my family with many years experience, they are certainly not convinced either way.

    There are so many factors. There are also many top level geldings in the horse world for example without lots of problems, it is routine really to sterilise colts so personally I dont belive sterilisation leads to mass problems, it may raise or reduce the risk of certain problems by a small amount. Could be more in some breeds and less in others and of course it will all interact with environment and nutrition and exercise and genetics.

    Unfortunately in this country many people do not seem to be able to manage their animals or prevent them from breeding and roaming. From my own experience males can differ greatly in their reactions and need to roam.

    As to treating pyo non surgically yes it is possible but a couple of breeders I know who have done this with top bitches, eventually put both bitches down from recurring problems. So that risk is there as well.

    I have no problems with people managing and not sterilsing their dogs, I have a number of friends who do this quite successfully.

    I personally have no problems with sterilisng my lot simply because it suits my lifestyle and where I live. In all the years of owning sterilised dogs I have not so far had any health issues.

    I would be far more uncomfortable leaving my 4 bitches on heat when I am gone all day, I fear attracting in wild dogs that could kill my boys. A wild dog stole one of my neighbours bitches. He broke her out from her kennel and she came back pregnant.

    I think the people who are really concerned about what to do need to go through all the facts and their own capacity to manage and then make a decision.

    In the end I am not going to lose sleep about my choice to sterilise. I do it later now than I used to do, once the growth plates are closed and will continue to do this.

    People get really passionate about this debate. But I am not about to let people tell me that I am being cruel chopping bits out or that I am affecting the health of my dogs. My dogs and my familys dogs have the best life ever and so far have lived to between 15 and 17 years without major issues.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-23-2013 at 07:14 PM.

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