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Thread: pack theory versus not

  1. #11
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    some weird psychological boost to the ego?
    I think - based on the problems I'm having with certain dog trainers (club instructors), that it has to do with "saving face" and never having to learn something new if it means what you thought was right all along - was actually wrong and damaging. I swear - if they'd be persecuting Gallileo for suggesting the Earth might not be flat and the sun does not revolve around the Earth...

    So frustrating. And some of them are otherwise nice people sort of. They're killing my dog club.

  2. #12

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    haha reminds me of a lady that spent 30 years breeding, showing and selling ACD's. she woke up one day and decided she was bored and turned up at a working cattle dog trial to have some fun with her dogs - things were that bad with her dogs and her training that she broke down to the fact that evrything she achieved and devoted her entire life to was a farce and she realised how much damage she had actualy done to the breed she loved.

    she now has a string of unregistered mutt/BC's and no ACD's?????

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by muttboy View Post
    haha reminds me of a lady that spent 30 years breeding, showing and selling ACD's. she woke up one day and decided she was bored and turned up at a working cattle dog trial to have some fun with her dogs - things were that bad with her dogs and her training that she broke down to the fact that evrything she achieved and devoted her entire life to was a farce and she realised how much damage she had actualy done to the breed she loved.

    she now has a string of unregistered mutt/BC's and no ACD's?????
    You dont get good working dogs by breeding them for the conformation ring. A lot of cattle dogs are now purpose bred Border collie and BC crosses probably with kelpie and cattle dog blends in the mix in some cases. I myself have a working bred cattle dog and she is different to my showbred cattle dogs particularly in her structure.

    Over in the West we are fortunate to have excellent dog clubs with a raft of terrific instructors.

  4. #14
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    Pack theory and just plain bad/abusive training are not hand in hand. You can believe what you want, if you have no consideration for the dog and lack skills you will easily stuff up a dog or get yourself/client attacked. We have plenty of CM wannabees down here and it's frightening what they consider 'training'. You just hope insurance is decent with some of these trainers.

    I do agree, it seems to be an ego thing - to pin a dog and stress it that much is for your own benefit, not the animals. I train with corrections but I will NEVER push a dog to shut down, or stress it to the point of a total freak out. The only time I have had my hand forced is when I was going to be attacked myself and it was self protection.

  5. #15
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    I have met people who train well without rewards but they were firm and fair.

  6. #16
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    Yep. My FIL is one of them and his dogs adore him.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  7. #17
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    It's not about treats or not. It's usually about punishing the dog when most of the time they have no idea what's going on. Bit like you'd be waking down the street somewhere and all of a sudden a cop jumps in front of you and yells at you to put your hands on your head and face the wall, then throws you to the ground and hand cuffs you and charges you with a criminal offence because apparently it is illegal to walk on that side of the street when you're wearing black shoes and earrings. And of course it's infinitely worse if they do that to you for some mysterious offence you committed hours earlier.

    Rules are good. Punishing someone because they broke a rule without first making them aware of the rule is bad. But that is what I often see the macho "respect my authority " dog owners do to their dogs. Their dogs must see them as psychopaths...

    I find treats do make it easier to mark correct behaviour, but I accept that there are lots of other options too. Problem with my ex is that even his praise is dubious because sometimes he will pin the dog down for being too slow in responding to his call and then releases her with a 'good dog' for coming. Or something like that. How that can make sense to anyone, I do not know. Random punishment and vague rewards are a really bad combination. And yet, she is a nice dog and fairly well behaved.
    Last edited by Beloz; 07-27-2013 at 02:12 PM.

  8. #18
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    a reward doesn't have to be food. sometimes it's just the opportunity to be with you.

  9. #19
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    Mine now usually just get praise.
    My secret weapon is the word num nums.
    This word means they will always get a treat once they do what I want which is come away from the door and sit whist someone comes in or go out the backdoor.
    Jodi gets num nums for disobeying and staying inside the door, lol. All four think that this is perfectly normal.

    If I want Jodi outside as well I step outside and give them all the reward there which is usually a small handful of dry cat food mixed with some small dog treats that I keep in a big jar, scattered on the deck. When they see me walking to that jar even without the words they come and sit expectantly then do what I tell them to, usually a hand move and the words outside.
    Last edited by Di_dee1; 07-28-2013 at 03:25 PM.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

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