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Thread: pup's first heat - nightmare

  1. #1

    Default pup's first heat - nightmare

    hi, my 7mo pup is on her first heat. i will get her spayed on her second. she will not be bred.

    how do you guys keep them isolated? i do not want to throw her in a kennel for so long untill it's over, i have two intact males in the house, one her bro and a dominant young adult male. they are not competing for her they are ganging up on her.

    she sleeps in my room with the door shut at night and as it is winter she is coming to work and staying in a crate in the car by day. she gets let out for a walk nearly evry hour for a few minutes. and i spend my breaks with her walking around the place. more attention than she normally gets on a week day.

    the changes between leaving home for work and work for home are tedious.

    all the dogs are getting less excercise while i manage this which makes their energy levels increase. tonight i will lock in the hosue for a few hours and run the other dogs until they are fatigued.

    hope i am doing this right.
    Last edited by muttboy; 07-17-2013 at 12:01 PM.

  2. #2

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    There's no easy way I'm afraid. You may want to chat to your vet - there is an injection that can sometimes be given to bring estrus to an end sooner. How long has she been in so far? The males' behaviour may change as she does. If she is in season but not yet ready ("in standing heat"), they may start competing for her at that stage.

    Either way it is a loooong three weeks...

  3. #3
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    Gawd. I had a house mate who had a kelpie that came on heat... and she left little blood trails everywhere - it was yucky.

    As for walks... if you can load stinky bitch up in the car and drive her to a park and exercise there (no other dogs around), then you don't track random male dogs home with you. Most people I know who keep intact males and intact females - have a secure dog run for putting the female in while she can't be supervised. Secure meaning - escape proof and break in proof - concrete floor and a ceiling / roof.

    What Nattylou said. Plus I think there is a sort of doggy pill for preventing seasons... but I don't know if that affects bone growth or not. Ie the main reason to wait is for bone growth to be done...

  4. #4
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    I dont think that I would be using hormones to supress their heats especially the first one as that rather defeats the whole purpose of letting her have her first heat. I think this can have implications. I was advised strongly against it. That is just my opinion, I wouldnt do it.

    Really it aint rocket science and yes it is tedious, your choice though. You just have to make sure that your males dont have access to your female. The household will be disrupted for awhile and you just have to find a way to deal with it. Such is the joy of a bitch on heat and uncastrated male dogs in the mix.

    I have a 7 month old bitch that will come into season shortly I would guess and when I go out and she is unsupervised she will be securely locked in my laundry. My males are sterilised but neighbours sheepdogs are not.

    In suburbia I have walked an in season bitch during low dog activity hours and never had any issues.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 07-18-2013 at 12:50 PM.

  5. #5

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    in standing heat for last few days and receptive, how long is this phase again??

  6. #6
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    I have walked a in season bitch and been followed by 4 dogs. Some of them none too friendly and dead set on rape lol
    But it is a nightmare. And Pohm sooked for a week, she seriously had pains for the first time. I felt so sorry for her.

    I had to use my laundry for this purpose. and a crate trained bitch, in her first season, is a god send. another reason to crate train.
    Women have been messing about with their cycles with hormones for a very long time. But unlike dogs, they later go on to attempt to conceive. There is no evidence that taking hormones 'the pill' the morning after pill etc, affects your fertility later, ability to carry to term, or to be speyed. Or it would show in stats. It doesn't. there is a risk in hormone therapy, that we use the wrong dose (early contraceptive pill for women being an example), at those doses, that is where we saw the spike in cervical cancers. These days, dogs taking hormones are going to have hormone levels taken and measured. pre, during and post therapy. Women dont even get that in most cases.
    I think there is a lot of old wives tales, based a tiny bit of out of date information about hormones and harms.

    I would use hormones to avoid a period, why deny my dog that?
    Science is here, use it if its to your benefit.

  7. #7

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    i was not aware there was a "pill" for dogs. i did get my old girl progesterone shots after she got joined accidently years ago, is that what you mean??

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by muttboy View Post
    in standing heat for last few days and receptive, how long is this phase again??
    7-10 days. Or more. Mine normally stand at day 11, and are standing until about day 21. Sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    I dont think that I would be using hormones to supress their heats especially the first one as that rather defeats the whole purpose of letting her have her first heat. I think this can have implications. I was advised strongly against it. That is just my opinion, I wouldnt do it.
    Until people have a bitch on heat and are suddenly completely overwhelmed and not coping. All bitches are different. Some are easy to manage and some are absolutely not. Some turn into rampant, destructive, feral monsters. Even highly experienced dog breeders and managers like boarding kennel owners are caught out by seriously unpredictable behaviour from both females and males when bitches are in season.

    A bitch that is in standing heat has had a decent whack of hormones. If she is brought out of that heat a little early it will make little difference to the effect hormones have on growth. But if she injures herself, or a dog injures himself, or she gets bred, any benefits of leaving her to have a season can quickly get cancelled out as well.

    I would have to check with my vet but I have had rescue bitches injected to bring them out (long ago so memory is struggling!) - it still takes three days - so that they can be reliably booked for desexing etc. It's a different injection to the hefty ones given as "morning after" prophylactic.

    In days gone by some breeders used to give bitches fairly high levels of Chlorophyll tablets coming up to and during estrus. This doesn't stop her acting up, but masks the scent almost completely so they can be housed and exercised more normally.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    I would use hormones to avoid a period, why deny my dog that?
    Science is here, use it if its to your benefit.
    Not for my dogs first heat I wouldnt. That is what I was strongly advised against doing by several experienced vets. I had my dog booked into course that I had to book a month in advance and she was 10 months old and still hadnt had her first heat, so was considering it.

    This is likely different to bringing a dog out of heat a bit earlier.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 07-18-2013 at 08:20 PM.

  10. #10
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    i did get my old girl progesterone shots after she got joined accidently years ago, is that what you mean??
    Not exactly. usually the pill is a mix of progesterone and estrogen. A big dose of it can have a similar effect to the morning after pill and variations on the theme were what doctors prescribed for women who wanted the morning after pill before a properly packaged one became available ([rant]see how useless you are mr rabbit[end rant]).

    Best to ask your vet. Cos like Nattylou said there can be other implications to messing with hormones. Like it's not advisable to give one to a woman too young either - tho that does happen. There is research to show that speying (or desexing) very young does affect bone and joint growth, and the kind of spey that bitches get - usually means all the bits come out and the hormones aren't what they would be without that. Hence it being a good idea to wait (not that this happened with my puppy) for the puppy to be fully grown. And it might also be a good idea to wait until the puppy is fully grown before messing with the natural hormone cycles.

    Hopefully your vet would be up to date with the relevant info. But a lot of GPs are not when it comes to wimmins things so I imagine some vets would be in the same slow boat.

    Here's a link to one of the articles about early desex.
    http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/...tions_2013.pdf

    Towards the end the author suggests letting a bitch have two heat cycles (and be about 12 to 14 month old for full bone development) before desexing. Note the actual times vary with breed and size of the bitch or dog.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 07-18-2013 at 10:43 PM.

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