Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Puppyfarm raided in the Adelaide Hills

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
    Posts
    228

    Default

    Well both my dogs I've gotten off gumtree...awkward moment when both of them are awesome and healthy. I never saw Bonnie's parents with another litter, try though I might before we got Rebel (plan was to desex her before the male came home if it was from her litter so no surprises). I've actually got tons of pets off gumtree and they've all been great healthwise - don't know where you guys live so might be different there. I've had some trouble with buying birds off it occassionally but that's to be expected.

    As far as the RSPCA goes, well people turn to gumtree because they're so expensive. Something like $400 for an adult x-bred, a lot of the adults are not even that attractive looking (contest me on this but I like to have a good looking dog - temperament and health come first, but first impressions also count - say what you like, it's true - I also do not hold with the 'dogs are ornaments' argument at all). And the puppies, usually cute as hell, I think last time I checked was 500+. It depends on the type of puppy but they absolutely price them according to breed popularity which is wrong imo - all or none. However I hate the RSPCA and I think they've turned bad - I looked up a bunch of other associations and they're between 100 and 400 generally (puppies). Also, the RSPCA cuts corners - I've known a fair few people that adopted RSPCA pets only to have them catch a disease they were supposed to be vaccinated against, and one of my friends had a cat from there who, despite being labelled desexed, bore 7 healthy kittens 6 months after she was adopted! Bet the family was well pleased about that considering they lived in an apartment. But my point is, gumtree and so on are cheaper, and people go there BECAUSE the RSPCA etc charge way too much. You can get a purebred, or something very close, for the same price as a street puppy that looks like it might be a pitbull cross [NOTE- before you jump on me, this is from a general and hopefully unbiased standpoint - I don't have anything against pitties, but a lot of people do because of reported 'pitties' attacking]. (I'll be getting my next dog from a breed rescue (GSD <3) if it's not a papered breeding bitch, but otherwise I will be).

    There's probably as many bad owners as there are BYB breeders - out for a quick buck (breeder) and a cheap ornament (owner). Lots of people I know with dogs who have behavioural problems like howling, all day, because nobody was home. I don't think you should generalise a whole site or type of site when there are obviously exceptions, and quite a few I'll go as far to say. The fault lies in the ones who do wrong, but there are loads of 'good' breeders on gumtree.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,583

    Default

    RSPCA charge what it costs to desex, microchip and vaccinate and worm the puppy. They don't even include what it costs to feed and house them for the time they're with the RSPCA.

    BYB often charge much much more for "designer breeds" mutts.

    The dogs that are cheaper off RSPCA are usually not desexed, or they were somebody else's free to a good home - that someone took and is now trying to make a profit on. The temperament can be bad, there can be lots of bad habits, bad teeth, bad joints, and ongoing health problems and no doggy social skills.

    I live next door to a puppy farm special right now. They can't walk it, it picks fights with every dog it sees now - despite meeting Frosty a few times when it was a puppy, it barks continuously when it's outside, and quite a bit when it's inside. I can't move in my back yard without it barking at me. It kills birds too - slowly like a cat. Horrific. Can't be walked - because it pulls and tries to attack other dogs...

    They didn't ask me about training or where to get a puppy and they don't ask for help now. And I know lots of dogs like that. There's another neighbour around the corner with three petshop puppy farm BYB specials in her yard. And the boxer x and staffy x cannot be walked - they bark every time anyone walks past the house, and they attack the gate as you go past. And it's a high pedestrian traffic area.

    So I wouldn't say it's the majority of dogs that are like this - but about half of the ones in my neighbourhood are like this.

    So my point is - you're not saving any money by buying off gumtree in the long run. Not if you are a responsible dog owner.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, QLD
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post

    As far as the RSPCA goes, well people turn to gumtree because they're so expensive. Something like $400 for an adult x-bred, a lot of the adults are not even that attractive looking (contest me on this but I like to have a good looking dog - temperament and health come first, but first impressions also count - say what you like, it's true - I also do not hold with the 'dogs are ornaments' argument at all). And the puppies, usually cute as hell, I think last time I checked was 500+. It depends on the type of puppy but they absolutely price them according to breed popularity which is wrong imo - all or none. However I hate the RSPCA and I think they've turned bad - I looked up a bunch of other associations and they're between 100 and 400 generally (puppies). Also, the RSPCA cuts corners - I've known a fair few people that adopted RSPCA pets only to have them catch a disease they were supposed to be vaccinated against, and one of my friends had a cat from there who, despite being labelled desexed, bore 7 healthy kittens 6 months after she was adopted! Bet the family was well pleased about that considering they lived in an apartment. But my point is, gumtree and so on are cheaper, and people go there BECAUSE the RSPCA etc charge way too much. You can get a purebred, or something very close, for the same price as a street puppy that looks like it might be a pitbull cross [NOTE- before you jump on me, this is from a general and hopefully unbiased standpoint - I don't have anything against pitties, but a lot of people do because of reported 'pitties' attacking]. (I'll be getting my next dog from a breed rescue (GSD <3) if it's not a papered breeding bitch, but otherwise I will be).
    The RSPCA (and other rescues) charge so much because they desex, behaviour test, microchip, vaccinate, worm them plus feeding costs.. both my dogs cost $300 from the RSPCA and I doubt I could have got a dog off gumtree and did all those things for under $300. Do you have any suggestions on how they can do this, as well as keeping their facilities maintained, and charge less money?

    Molly had kennel cough when we bought her home, and she was vaccinated, but you have to understand that these things have incubation periods so the animal could already have it before they are vaccinated. We also foster a cat (for a different rescue group) and she caught cat flu, even after being vaccinated... it is very common for animals to still get sick after vaccinating, the vaccinations just usually make the sickness less severe

    I'd say your friend was unlucky, maybe a cat slipped through the system, or maybe the vet made a mistake.. did the cat have an ear tattoo.. that's a very easy way to check.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
    Posts
    228

    Default

    To be fair, when I bought my dogs I wasn't doing it off gumtree to 'save money' but because I had something specific in mind - and the RSPCA would not provide that for me. I'm not sure if it had a tattoo, but my point is, a lot of people I've seen who adopt from the RSPCA get bad results. Some of them were even crooked behaviourally, which I was under the impression the RSPCA was meant to check for (and I mean straight from getting it home, not something developed over time). The RSPCA gets absolutely tons in charity funds as that's the first 'animal welfare' cause people think to go to when funding, so I know they're not some 'poor hard done by' little charity. You can pick up dogs for free on classifed sites with complete health and vet checks for under 250, usually less and often free, which are also desexed and chipped, vacc'd and wormed, plus they've even been fed!! Obviously there are a lot who *say* their dog has had all this done, but if they've got a vet check to prove it, and a vet record, why would a reasonable person go to the RSPCA when there are loads of these legitimate dogs up for less? Don't tell me you'd rather pay more just because it's the RSPCA and they're meant to be good - at least, in my experience they've been sh*t. First dog we had was from the RSPCA and he nearly died the night we got him from parvo - and he was a puppy. I can't speak for other rescue services because I've had little experience with them. But the RSPCA, in my honest opinion, doesn't deserve the credit it gets.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, QLD
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    Some dogs can seem fine in the shelter because it's an 'intimidating' environment with lots of noises, scary new people etc so dogs seem to be a lot more reserved and then when they are taken into a home, their true personality comes out, including bad behaviours. They obviously weren't showing signs of these behaviours in the shelter otherwise the people wouldn't have adopted them. The RSPCA do have a 14 day no questions asked return policy that I hope the people took advantage of if they weren't happy with the dog. Same with illnesses, if your dog becomes sick within 14 days, they cover all costs. We had to take Molly to an after hours vet on a Sunday due to her kennel cough... the bill was over $500 and RSPCA covered it completely, which was more than what we adopted her for.

    Those dogs that you can pick up for free with everything done... are they rescue dogs or dogs owned by a family who can no longer keep it? It's easy to rehome 1 or 2 dogs for free or cheap because the loss isn't that big... but what about rehoming 300,000 + dogs?... that's a HUGE loss. A lot of small rescue groups rehome their dogs for around the same pricing as the RSPCA, and some charge even more, and that's completely fine. You must remember that all the dogs that the RSPCA and other rescues have for adoption would have been PTS if not for going into the shelter... I can't understand how people can hate these organisations when the blame should be put on the owners who abandoned the animals and the pathetic people (puppy farms and BYB's) who breed unnecessary dogs.

    What do you mean by "why would a reasonable person go to the RSPCA when there are loads of these legitimate dogs up for less?" I'm a very reasonable person, I went to the RSPCA and got my dogs.. my dogs are the best dogs in the world, they are excellent, extremely loyal and the friendliest and most loved dogs in the park.. they have 4 legs, a waggy tail, and they bark.. that sounds pretty legitimate to me. They may not be purebred, and they should never have been bred (by some pathetic BYB) but they are still dogs and still loved just as much as any purebred.

    I think that experiences with the RSPCA varies.. you said that you've only had bad experiences while I've adopted 2 dogs and a cat and have had excellent experiences while with gumtree, you've only had good experiences yet every dog that I've met who was purchased through gumtree, online, in the paper, at a petshop etc has ended up costing the owners thousands of dollars in vet bills as they age and problems start to appear.

    I believe that there is no reason for anybody to breed unless they genuinely want to improve the breed, and are willing to be responsible for the animals for their entire life- this would help to reduce the number of animals in shelters. Puppy farms and breeding of any kind should be illegal unless the breeder is registered (maybe even sit a test.. like a drivers licence) and all puppies are sold microchipped with the current owners and the breeders details, that way, if they end up unwanted at any stage of their life, the breeder should be held responsible (they brought them into this world) for either rehoming the dog themselves or paying the rehoming costs to the rescue. Obviously, it will be hard to police and they will have to do a lot of auditing, but it will greatly reduce the number of animals in shelters if people knew that they are responsible for 12+ dogs/puppies for the next 15-20 years. Unfortunately, there will always be unwanted animals and the need for shelters but if we can remove all the cute puppies in pet shop windows, and reduce the numbers of cute puppies for sale online and the newspaper and make people understand that they really are a commitment for LIFE, hopefully impulse buying will also reduce.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
    Posts
    228

    Default

    By legitimate I meant, dogs without problems ie. behavioural problems, health problems, etc. What you'd expect to get from an RSPCA dog. And while I get the fact that it would be difficult to rehome 300,000 odd dogs or more, if those 'legit' dogs that are being put up for sale for decent reasons ie. moving overseas or into an apartment etc, if nobody adopts them, where do you think they'll end up? They're just a trip away from the pound and being PTS themselves, therefore I consider them on par with RSPCA dogs. I got Rebel through the weekend shopper - you're not going to tell me he's got health problems when he's already been cleared for TNS by parentage (and a few others)? Had another dog years ago from a petshop, she def wasn't purebred border collie, looked to be sheltie cross, and she never had health issues until arthritis at age 11. So really, I've never had a single bad experience with paper-dogs, gumtree, or any classified sites, in fact I've had nothing but good from them, and nothing but bad from the RSPCA. I guess it depends entirely on your personal experiences, and I'm not saying that won't change, since change is the essence of life, but at this point I have little respect for the RSPCA in terms of their cutting corners and lying. Just my opinion, based on my experiences.

    A note on your test theory - I think if the breeder has to sit the test, then anyone wanting to buy an animal has to sit one too. It's not the breeder's fault if the buyer is a shallow, impulsive pr*ck, and vice versa. Maybe it could be based on an experience thing - a test for the first animal you buy, then you can buy freely. Maybe an example of where you see yourself in 15 years' time etc. I don't know, probably will never come to pass though.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, QLD
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    Yes, I 100% agree that people wanting to buy an animal should sit a test too and be cleared by the breeder. But in the meantime, the breeder should be responsible for making sure that they aren't selling their puppies to impulsive people or anyone who may be a bad owner. For example, somebody selling working breeds to a full-time worker who lives in a tiny townhouse and doesn't have much time to exercise the animal.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    945

    Default

    Like a drivers license... I like it. Can you lose your license when you walk your dog drunk?


    Maybe it would help fixing some things though. Like whatever happened to Koda for example (just shared with me on Facebook). Koda's owner lost interest very quickly. She is only about 13 weeks old, based in SA and looking for her furever home...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, QLD
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    Poor Koda That's heartbreaking.

    Some sort of licencing system for owning dogs, and other animals, really would make a difference in keeping dogs like Koda out of the situations that they are in. Plus it might even stop the need for BSL because only responsible people are owning these animals.

    It's illegal to be in control of an animal while drunk... you can't ride a horse if drunk so maybe it already is illegal to walk a dog drunk

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Striker View Post
    Well both my dogs I've gotten off gumtree...awkward moment when both of them are awesome and healthy. I never saw Bonnie's parents with another litter, try though I might before we got Rebel (plan was to desex her before the male came home if it was from her litter so no surprises). I've actually got tons of pets off gumtree and they've all been great healthwise - don't know where you guys live so might be different there. I've had some trouble with buying birds off it occassionally but that's to be expected.

    As far as the RSPCA goes, well people turn to gumtree because they're so expensive. Something like $400 for an adult x-bred, a lot of the adults are not even that attractive looking (contest me on this but I like to have a good looking dog - temperament and health come first, but first impressions also count - say what you like, it's true - I also do not hold with the 'dogs are ornaments' argument at all). And the puppies, usually cute as hell, I think last time I checked was 500+. It depends on the type of puppy but they absolutely price them according to breed popularity which is wrong imo - all or none. However I hate the RSPCA and I think they've turned bad - I looked up a bunch of other associations and they're between 100 and 400 generally (puppies). Also, the RSPCA cuts corners - I've known a fair few people that adopted RSPCA pets only to have them catch a disease they were supposed to be vaccinated against, and one of my friends had a cat from there who, despite being labelled desexed, bore 7 healthy kittens 6 months after she was adopted! Bet the family was well pleased about that considering they lived in an apartment. But my point is, gumtree and so on are cheaper, and people go there BECAUSE the RSPCA etc charge way too much. You can get a purebred, or something very close, for the same price as a street puppy that looks like it might be a pitbull cross [NOTE- before you jump on me, this is from a general and hopefully unbiased standpoint - I don't have anything against pitties, but a lot of people do because of reported 'pitties' attacking]. (I'll be getting my next dog from a breed rescue (GSD <3) if it's not a papered breeding bitch, but otherwise I will be).

    There's probably as many bad owners as there are BYB breeders - out for a quick buck (breeder) and a cheap ornament (owner). Lots of people I know with dogs who have behavioural problems like howling, all day, because nobody was home. I don't think you should generalise a whole site or type of site when there are obviously exceptions, and quite a few I'll go as far to say. The fault lies in the ones who do wrong, but there are loads of 'good' breeders on gumtree.
    Not every dog off gumtree is going to be unhealthy just as not every dog from a breeder is going to be perfect. The chances of getting a sound, genetically healthy dog is simply increased by purchasing from a good breeder. A good breeder will also in most cases take a dog back if something dire happens to the owner and will be responsible for the dog.

    The shelter (not RSPCA in this case) that I have got several dogs from include full vaccination and sterilisation in the price. They also have a professional trainer on their staff who does evaluations and makes sure dogs are a good match with prospective owners. I know her well from dog trialing and she knows her stuff.

    When people sell their puppies or dogs on gum tree or paper they are often (not always) not particularly fussy where they go. I picked up a "free to good home" koolie in suburbia this way and truth is they couldnt have cared less what type of home I was offering, they couldnt wait to see the back of him as they couldnt handle his energy. He is a great sheepdog and I was pretty safe health wise because these working bred dogs are pretty sound. His story could have been very different.

    To me I doubt there are loads of good breeders on gumtree. The really good breeders that I know wouldnt dream of selling their dogs this way, but then they dont need too. A vet check is not the same as genetic testing, you know this. Genetic problems usually surface at a later date. I have got purebred puppies for $350-$400 from reputable breeders, with all the genetic testing done. The country papers often advertises working pups and this situation I go watch the parents working and do some research on the lines.

    I wouldnt personally buy a puppy off something like Gumtree although I have in the way distant past from the weekend classifieds before computers and the knowledge we have now and when this was how it was done even by the good breeders. I like to do my homework on what I am purchasing and I also like to talk to the breeder see the parnets and understand what their breeding goals and practices are and get a good feel for the quality of their puppies.

    With the shelter puppies, I do my own structure and temperament evaluation, talk to the head trainer and she often has done a bit of research on the dogs background and origins as much as she can. I do take a punt on the gentic lottery with pups. For me good structure is everything because of what I use my dogs for. I am not fussy about colour, ear set, coat length or beauty, but a well structured, stable temperament but high octane dog is always attractive to me.

    I have learnt various lessons along the way with regards to dogs of which my family has had many over the years from all sorts of different sources, rescue, paper, BYB, pound, good breeders and I have run the gaunlet of a range of genetic and structural problems. Which you do if you have a lot of dogs over many years.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-13-2013 at 04:38 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •