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Thread: Advice needed on finding the right breed for me!

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassnessxox View Post
    What is the difference between a puppy farm and a registered breeder exactly? Would it not simply be the conditions? Why exactly are cross breeds irresponsible to breed? If both dogs have a great temperament, clear of genetic disorders etc etc then why could they not produce a perfectly fine puppy? Also if cross breeds are so bad, how is adopting a cross breed from a shelter more responsible than buying a cross breed besides from the fact that you are saving the dog from the shelter?

    This is the place that the ACA Pups source their dogs
    Removed link

    This is the Beagle breeder that I have been in contact with
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    Ethics is the difference between a registered breeder and a puppy farmer. Registered breeders follow a code of ethics and in most cases are there for betterment of their chosen breed. Puppy farmers are there to make money at the expense of the poor dogs they keep. A registered breeder will ensure any puppy it sells has a sound temperament and its parents have been cleared of any genetic disorders. Puppy farmers don't.

    No one is saying cross breeds are bad, where designer dogs comes from however is generally never any good. I would prefer to adopt a dog that already needs a home rather than line the pockets of someone who over breeds dogs for money.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassnessxox View Post
    I am after an indoor/outdoor dog. More than likely outdoors during days of suitable weather when we are at work and indoor at night and when we are home. I like the size of a beagle, I wouldn't want anything much bigger or much smaller to be honest. I am up to the challenge of training a dog like the beagle and intend to have it properly trained and socialised. I wouldn't mind a bit of grooming, particularly as the place I work has a fantastic groomer who I would trust with anything more difficult. I would like a fairly energetic dog who I could take on walks and play with in the backyard. As far as temperament goes I just don't want it to eat my rabbits lol but only smaller dogs would reduce that risk and it will never disappear entirely.

    Is a beagle really any more likely to attack the rabbits than any other dog?
    As mentioned in a previous post a beagle is primarily a scent hound used for jobs such as tracking and detection. There are plenty of dogs that will make short work of small critters, my kelpie would kill, defur/pluck and eat a rabbit or bird in an instant. The dog will need training and you will need to keep the rabbit safe regardless of the breed. I cant see why beagles would be anymore prone to this.

    To me an ethical breeder is one who breeds with a view to improving the breed. Working breeders will sometimes mix and match herding breeds to strengthen certain herding traits if they think the pairing will produce something better than both parents, personally I dont have a problem with this if the end result is going to be a super working line of dogs. For the pet market I think there is already a good line up of dog breeds with well known characteristics, and good breeding will produce strong, healthy, good temperament dogs with out mix and matching breeds which may produce more variable results.

    An ethical breeder will always want to meet the prospective owners of their puppies and try and find a good match. They have also taken care to understand any genetic carriers or genetic weaknesses in their lines and strive to improve with the help of screeing technology. They also usually will take a dog back if it is in danger of ending up in a shelter for any reason. The puppies will also be socialised in a home setting with kids and people etc. An ethical breeder would never sell a puppy through a pet shop as they would want to know first hand where that puppy is going.

    Certainly just because a breeder is registered doesnt guarantee these things I know that well enough from experience and that is for you as the buyer to check out.

  3. #13
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    welcome cassnessxox

    I did a bit of editing to make the name of the puppy mi ll a bit harder to find by google.

    Like the others said, there is no way a reputable breeder would let a shop front have their puppies. It's bad for the puppy socialisation and people skills. And with cross breeds and designer dogs - the people that sell these make promises about "getting the best of both breeds" when you're just as likely to get the worst of both breeds in the genetic lottery mix.

    Personally I can't trust anything people like that say after such a blatant lie. And the dogs themselves often have poor social skills and a bunch of expensive problems at the vet like bad teeth structure, weak backs, joint problems, general immunity problems etc.

    Most breed clubs have breed specific rescues or knowledge of dogs of their breed that need rehoming. These may not always be puppies but if it's an adult dog - you'd definitely be able to find out what the personality of the dog is like. One of my friends got a border collie from petrescue.com.au that is completely ball obsessed and good with children and all manner of small furry critters like rabbits, guinea pigs and budgies.

    Most of the rescues on petrescue - use foster carers, and foster carers can give you a really good picture of what the dog is like before you agree to take the dog on and most of them will take the dog back if you don't get along.

    Other things a good rescue or breeder will want to know is what kind of home are you offering for the puppy/dog. Is it secure, is it a rental (cos things often go pear shaped for the dog if the renter has to find a new place), do you have a secure income sufficient to cover the costs of owning a dog. And getting the sports strapping tape out of a golden retriever will cost $2000+ if its not found in time for the vomit treatment. Vaccinations and flea management can cost around $200-300 per annum and then there is the food - tho I imagine you'd get a discount on that?

    I think you may have confused a beagle with a similar looking dog called a fox hound - which is bigger and taller and bred to find foxes. Even then - the fox hound is supposed to corner the fox for dispatch by the hound master - not tear it to shreds.

    Stay away from the terrier breeds - it is possible to train them to be polite around other furry critters - there are plenty of staffies that are good friends with the family cat etc, but it's harder to achieve.

    If you want a dog that couldn't win a fight with a rabbit if it tried - maybe a king Charles cavalier spaniel would be the go. A pug would probably have trouble too but they're so hungry all the time they'd probably try.

    Definitely contact the beagle club in your state - go meet some of the breeders at a club function or show. Any dog show will get you meeting lots of dogs and their breeders. And sometimes it's better to meet face to face - because breeders get a lot of "tyre kickers" and scammers and people just on the latest fad - who will want to return the puppy as soon as it hits adolescence and starts chewing the furniture or shreds mum's favourite pair of shoes.

    Please - do not get your puppy from a pet shop.
    You may also want to ask questions about dna tests for genetic problems - in both the parents - it's not a guarantee but it does show the breeder cares about trying for the healthiest possible puppies.
    Disorders by Breed - Beagle - LIDA Dogs - Faculty of Veterinary Science - The University of Sydney

    Ps the breeder you found - is ANKC registered and looks to be doing the right things, so she'd be a good person to talk to even if she doesn't have any puppies right now.
    http://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/...ame=SLIGRACHAN

    Also it can take up to a year to organise a litter of puppies from choosing the breeding pair, waiting for the bitch to come in season, be pregnant, and puppies to reach 8 weeks old + before they can be rehomed. So please be patient, if you decide to get a pedigree. Use the time to make really good friends with the breeder of your choice.

    PPS - that breeder is also in the WA beagle club..
    http://www.wabeagleclub.org.au/
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 04-25-2013 at 09:51 PM.

  4. #14

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    I have looked for the beagle rescue around here but it appears to have no dogs right now (if its even running still). Im also following most of the shelters on facebook where they post photos of most of their dogs and rarely see anything that isn't a staffy or kelpie. I feel like Im going against my beliefs not adopting...I will always keep an eye out, I just have to take care of the rest of my pets obviously.

    As far as the wait list goes, the breeder has communicated this and I am more than happy to wait as I am not even ready for a dog at the moment. Just want to learn as much as I can before the time comes.

    I suppose you are all right about any pet shop that sells dogs/cats/etc. I just feel so limited by breeders, particularly because WA seems so limited and I would like to see their conditions for myself. The place I mentioned earlier seems so lovely, but has reviews facing either extreme. Some say its amazing, some say its an awful place. What on earth do you believe!? Even registered breeders seem to face the same controversy. And even then...I'm not sure I agree with 'animal showing' to be honest.

    I did consider the Cavalier King Charles but they are quite placid, un-energetic dogs aren't they? So probably not up to going on a run with me? My boyfriend also refused to get such a girly dog =P haha but I suppose the more un-energetic the better for my rabbits...

    If the general consensus is that a Beagle would be no worse than most dogs then I am happy to go with this breeder. I have communicated with her already (though she seems a little intimidating) and am happy to go on the wait list if she is happy with my conditions. I have just received such horrible, judgmental reactions when I have mentioned that Beagles are my breed of choice, so I am open to better suggestions. I have looked around at other breeds of similar size and just haven't become as stuck on any others as I seem to be on beagles. Must be my weakness...

  5. #15
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    There is nothing really too bad about showing. I had a go with one of my dogs really to get her used to the trial atmosphere before she was old enough for agility. She seemed to quite enjoy the whole palava. I didnt though as I was advised to wear white to contrast with her black colour Now I am not the sort of person to wear white under any circumstances way too high maintenance(I ended up covered in black dog hair). Some people always seem to look immaculate regardless of the situation. I am not one of those people.

    I wouldnt worry about the judgements as long as you understand what a beagle entails. I am fond of cattle dogs and many people are not keen on them either. Training, exercise and socialisation and a good temperament is paramount.

    Breeders can often be a bit intimidating, it sometimes seems to go with the territory. You just have to demonstrate that you are gong to be a suitable contender for one of their pups. I remember one breeder grilled me within an inch of my life before she told me that she had a pup available that might be suitable. I didnt mind that and we ended up having a good long yak about cattle dogs when I went to look at the puppy.

    Great that you are taking your time.

  6. #16
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    I have looked for the beagle rescue around here but it appears to have no dogs right now (if its even running still). Im also following most of the shelters on facebook where they post photos of most of their dogs and rarely see anything that isn't a staffy or kelpie.
    Chances are you won't find the dog you want on the internet. I know I didn't. I had been going out to RSPCA or AWL about once a month ish - I found it quite traumatic the first time so visiting more than once helps you get used to that and focus on getting the right dog. It's no good taking the one that looks the most needy the first time you see it to "save it", when that's the wrong dog for you, and the person who is the right owner won't get to meet it because you took the wrong dog home.

    What happened to me - was I went out to the AWL - after phoning them - 2 hour trip for me through city traffic - got there, the dog on the internet was a boy not a girl dog (like they'd put on the internet) and it was already adopted. They said the same day but I doubt that two people would show up for the same dog on the same day. And - they had some puppies that were exactly what I wanted - and I picked the friendly one. The puppies never went up on their internet page.

    So you actually need to pick up the phone and call the beagle club and talk to a human - don't rely on the internet alone for checking which puppy to get from what person. You need to talk to these people on the phone and meet face to face. And this is also the best way to avoid scammers - and yes there are puppy for sale scammers out there who will promise you everything you want, take your money and then cut you off. Cos they're in Nigeria.

    If you do find the "perfect puppy" but it sounds a little off - that is where we can help, ie you have friends all over Australia who can check the puppy exists for you. And only consider importing if you have a spare $20,000 cos of quarantine and related costs.

  7. #17
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    There is a beagle bitch, Polly, born July 2010 up for adoption at the Dogs refuge home in Shenton Park. I have 2 great dogs from there and I know their head trainer. They are pretty accurate with their assessments .

    Medium Dogs for Adoption - Dogs' Refuge Home - Shenton Park
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 04-26-2013 at 12:56 PM.

  8. #18

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    I don't really know much about showing, so correct me if I am wrong, I have just gotten the impression that showing and pure breeding was...well just as bad as crossbreeding. Dogs being bred for perfection and being culled if they are not up to the standard. Perhaps I have heard some horror stories that aren't at all correct, it just seems like toddler pageantry to me.

    I am a little afraid that I will walk in to a shelter and try to take the lot home with me. I admit that my first rabbit was an impulse buy because she was tattered and half shaved due to the matts in her fur. They told me no one wanted her and she was half price because they needed to get rid of her. It was luckily the best impulsive decision I have ever made and I don't regret it for a second, but a dog particularly could go wrong very quickly.

    Am I wrong to think that a young pup would be the best suitor for raising with the rabbits? I was concerned that getting anything older would make it more difficult to get the dog desensitized and trained and it would go for the rabbits from the minute it sees them. Puppies learn the most in their first year right?

  9. #19
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    I have just gotten the impression that showing and pure breeding was...well just as bad as crossbreeding
    There are good breeders and bad breeders and scammers in this. There's much less of it in Australia than in the UK/Europe/USA just because we have less people, we're far away and there's much less money in it.

    ANKC - the peak kennel body has a code of ethics - which is a start. I'm not sure how well they enforce it but at least they have one. Back yard breeders (BYB) and Puppy farms have no code of ethics. Puppy farms - there are ones trying to do the right thing but when you have 300 bitches scattered around a farm in small sheds - how much people time do these dogs and their puppies get? Do they have a proper doggy life as we expect it - I don't think so. Are the breeders getting the parent dogs tested for complementary genetics and avoiding doubling up on bad genes like PRA (in poodles = blind dogs)?

    If I was going to get a dog from a breeder - I'd probably get one from someone at my dog club or in the competition agility people - and I'd meet the parent dogs and see if they had the right personality for me. I also met a nice stumpy tail breeder in NSW at a dog show - her dogs were so like the one I have now it was scary. All her dogs looked clean, healthy and happy to me. I got to meet her and her dogs in person and I'm pretty sure I could go out and visit where she keeps them too.

    There were lots of dogs there, all of them looked healthy to me. I did meet some very feral cav and toy poodle breeders. They were separate not mixed but the poodle was allowed to crap everywhere and the owners didn't clean up their litter or their dogs. Yuk. Friendly people but I would not get a dog from them or recommend them to anyone else.

    So it helps you to meet the people who have the breeds you like, and find out more about them, and their dogs and what its like to live with their breed. Most owners who show are somewhat dog obsessed - and will happily chat for ages about their dogs and how gorgeous they are and sometimes how naughty they are. So long as you don't get them just when they're preparing for their turn in the show ring.

    You're not going to get a real feel for what you're getting into - if you don't go meet the dogs first.

    And that goes to a similar extent for rescues. You should get to meet the dog and the dog meet you and you and the rescue person / foster carer see if you're a good match.

    Ideally with breeder and foster carer - they're both going to give you help after you take the dog/puppy home to give their dog the very best chance at a great home with you. So if you don't like the people - don't get a dog from them.

    If it's a big rescue - find out when the person you didn't like will be away and come back then. Sometimes there's people who don't have much people skills and have loads of bad experience with people who dump their dogs for the crappiest reasons and they will take it out on whomever says the "wrong" thing on the wrong day.

  10. #20
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    What I like about the dogs refuge in Shenton is that they have no intention of rehoming a dog in to the wrong home, you have to fill in forms and are assessed as to if you could provide a suitable home. They will be likely happy to discuss concerns and give back up help and advice if needed. They also will take their dogs back if the case ever arises.

    I would take your time, no need to rush a decision and explore all options. If you are interested in meeting Polly go and have a look and talk about the rabbit situation. One of our whippets grew up with a cat but he still ended up killing her. Not deliberately, just rough play one day.

    In terms of breeding and showing, the breeders show their dogs so they can be judged against a breed standard. This is not toddler pageantry it is assessment of how a dog is put together which has impact on the dogs health down the track.

    A good breeder will also make sure their dogs are free from genetic diseases. The breeders will try and select show quality pups to keep and sell the rest into pet homes. Sometimes a pup they kept doesnt work out in the show ring so they will rehome. They also will rehome older retired breeding dogs. My mum has one of these. A registeed breeder also has to adhere to strict guidlines. In some breeds they can only breed the dog if it has proof of genetic tests.

    Backyard breeders usually breed without having assessed structure or done genetic testing. My mum rescued a backyard bred dog and she had the most horrible structure. Ended up with 2 cruciate surgeries from straight stifles and badly arthritic shoulders from having a very straight front assembly

    As to culling, people that have working dogs are more likely to permanently cull, they will sometimes shoot a dog that is not up to scratch as rehoming is either too much of a hassle or the dog is most likely not suitable for a suburban situation.

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