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Thread: Killing rats with your dog ?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    melbourne australia
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    Bernie has very strong prey drive
    yet never chases stock, even lambs, chickens, geese, ducks
    he doesnt pester nesting water foul (i live in a wetland nature reserve) plenty of rodents/birds/roos/cats exposure, and ONLY chases rabbits and plastic bags in lure coursing
    I think this is because of our set up in mornings. First part of walk, off leash, go sniff, 2nd part, water retrieves, sits, drops, distance work, recalls etc. Then we release to go play in lake. ie. that excess energy is run off before i tried for control on edge of warren land. 3rd part of walk takes us past a large rabbit warren area. They begin to get excited, but remain under control, but in drive initiation, i keep them in this zone for up to 10 mins, working obedience, all the while they know, that NEXT is chase rabbit time.
    After we are done, they are leashed for a few minutes on walking, then 'released' to chase.
    The hunt goes for roughly 30 mins.

    Im now aware that i am not allowed to do this legally thanks to this forum;-)
    it wont stop us, they are rabbits, vermin and we live bush area

  2. #12

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    I think its very hard to stop an animal to stop doing the activities that it has been bred to do.

    My girl had an unfortunate incident in our chookyard when she noticed a crow stealing the eggs she rushed past into the yard amongst the chooks and before i had the chance to grab her she got ahold of said crow and left the chookyard with the now dead crow, still not sure whether thats a praise or repremand.
    She also catches the odd rat so I dont use poison baits.

  3. #13

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    Hmm, well they are in my yard and now I hear them in my roof so I have to do something and I don’t want them to suffer by bait. So last night I actually caught 6 rats in total in a live trap and then released them to my dog. Not all at once. Only one at a time as the trap can only catch them one at a time. She killed it in seconds. I couldn’t believe how fast it was and no blood or cuts to the rat, so I assume it must have died from shock.

    They only thing is, she killed the first two instantly, the second two wriggled a bit after she dropped them but then died a few seconds after but the last two didn’t die, she caught them, did her thing then dropped them but it was still crawling along and she just left it !

    So now I’m not letting any rats out to her as she doesn’t kill them instantly now.

    My question is, why isn’t she killing them properly ? Did I give her too many in one night ? Is she bored with hunting them now ? But when she can see the cage with the rat in it she shows full interest though.

    Could it be because they are young rats ? They don’t get scared as much as they are too young to know what to be scared of unlike the adult rats ? In the past she has caught adult rats and they died instantly.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    The RSPCA has made using live animals for any kind of dog training illegal.
    ^^^^^^^^^ ???????

    R$p ca may believe that they are a 'law unto themselves' - BUT - they do not have the power to enact Legislation - which then becomes Law - only Governments - Federal, State and Territories are able to do this - which is then filtered down to councils to come up with their by-laws !

    R$p ca are the 'so-called police' of the legislation - albeit with their own interpretation - so that is why they still have to take people to court - because - they are not judge and jury- yet anyway ! smiley-eatdrink004.gif

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mini_Foxie View Post
    Hi,

    Just wondering what people think about this. Is it humane to let your dog kill rats ? In this case my dog is a Miniature Fox Terrier.

    I know they were bred for hunting vermin but is it humane as I have a number of rats and don't like the sound of bait as it will kill the rat too slowly.

    Thanks.
    Hi 'Mini_Foxie' - and to the forum !

    I don't like using baits around my place either - mainly because of the pup and all the other critters in my yard that rely on them for food - like the tawny frogmouths and others ! But if the rats find their way up to the roof of the house - then they are poisoned.

    One of Riley's chores - he is a GSP BTW - which will allow him to be kept in the manner he has become accustomed + free rent and board - means he deals with the rats and mice that come into the house.

    Since he has been here - he has dispatched 2 very quickly and humanely - have not seen any others - so I believe he is keeping up his end of the bargain !

    Fox terriers have been used for a long time as ratters. You can even hire them from the Brisbane City Council - as seen in the following news report:

    Rat squad fast-tracked to Goodna | Ipswich Queensland Times

    So I wouldn't be worried with your pup hunting them down and killing them - because the rats are vermin - and they can do all sorts of damage around your house! I would let your pup do this herself - and not catch them as you are doing and giving them to her.

    As to her seeming to lose interest with all the ones you have caught and given to her - as far as foxies are concerned - it all about the chase and then the dispatching of the rat.

    It is like us eating something- say a pie - the first one tastes good - but every one after that our enjoyment goes down by varying degrees - until we can't bear the sight of a pie !
    Let her earn her keep - by doing something she was bred to do ! smiley-eatdrink004.gif

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Bernie has very strong prey drive
    yet never chases stock, even lambs, chickens, geese, ducks
    he doesnt pester nesting water foul (i live in a wetland nature reserve) plenty of rodents/birds/roos/cats exposure, and ONLY chases rabbits and plastic bags in lure coursing
    I think this is because of our set up in mornings. First part of walk, off leash, go sniff, 2nd part, water retrieves, sits, drops, distance work, recalls etc. Then we release to go play in lake. ie. that excess energy is run off before i tried for control on edge of warren land. 3rd part of walk takes us past a large rabbit warren area. They begin to get excited, but remain under control, but in drive initiation, i keep them in this zone for up to 10 mins, working obedience, all the while they know, that NEXT is chase rabbit time.
    After we are done, they are leashed for a few minutes on walking, then 'released' to chase.
    The hunt goes for roughly 30 mins.

    Im now aware that i am not allowed to do this legally thanks to this forum;-)
    it wont stop us, they are rabbits, vermin and we live bush area
    'Bernie' - as long as the different government departments throughout Australia still put down baits to kill rabbits and help landowners to get rid of same - all Bernie is doing is his bit for the preservation of the environment in this part of his world !

    It is not illegal - there are even bounties paid in some areas ! But only 2 rabbits - Bernie really needs to lift his game ! smiley-eatdrink004.gif

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
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    12,581

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    The RSPCA has stopped greyhound racing using any kind of live lure, or lures with rabbit fur on. Live fox hunting - with horses and riders and all that - I think that's banned too. But it's ok to go out spotlighting on the back of a ute for them. Go figure. And it's ok to put out those horrible leg traps for foxes and in some places - dingos.

    But most companion animal management acts, SA and NSW that I know of, have exceptions for killing vermin - which includes mice and rats. Not sure if rabbits fall in the definition or not - it might depend where they are. Eg letting your dog kill your neighbour's pet rabbit probably isn't ok. There might be an exception if the rabbit comes on your property. I think the same applies to cats. Not sure what the rules are about roo and pig shooting. Or even duck shooting.

    RSPCA can get a bit nutty about some rules. However I've seen country kids do some stupid horrific things when out spotlighting.

    This is the RSPCA take on pig hunting. I don't think they like what happens to the pigs and can happen to the dogs either.
    Is hunting feral pigs with dogs legal in Australia? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

    I'm not game to click on the link on that page.

    Here's their stuff on hunting generally.
    How are dogs used for hunting? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

    If they were in charge of what humans can do - they'd probably outlaw a number of sports that routinely cause horrific injuries.

    I think dogs can be a huge help in finding and killing feral animals and pest animals - but sometimes - the kill is not as quick and clean as it could be, and sometimes the dog gets horribly injured too. I've got mixed feelings about it. I'm all for getting some terriers at my place to help with the rat problem - tho I think my garden might suffer in the process. And I don't think the blue tongue would survive either.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Fraser Coast - Queensland
    Posts
    128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    But most companion animal management acts, SA and NSW that I know of, have exceptions for killing vermin - which includes mice and rats. Not sure if rabbits fall in the definition or not - it might depend where they are. Eg letting your dog kill your neighbour's pet rabbit probably isn't ok. There might be an exception if the rabbit comes on your property. I think the same applies to cats. Not sure what the rules are about roo and pig shooting. Or even duck shooting.
    rabbits definitely fall into the vermin category here in QLD. your not allowed to have one as a pet because they are such a problem as feral pests
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion" Author Unknown

  9. #19

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    I know a lot of people have strong views on this in here, so I can only give you mine.

    I walk a few jack russells/ fox terriers. Yes they were born as ratters, but that was for farms with people who worked these dogs daily.

    I know people who still take their dogs to eat rabbits. Humane aspect aside, I think owners need to ask themselves if they are alpha enough to control the dog after it has tasted blood so regularly.

    For some dogs it can turn them considerably feral and become more of a risk to cats and small children, let alone biting adults. I know this doesnt happen, but in urban environments with owners who are not properly trained to deal with side effects, and are not home all the time, then purposefully sending the dogs out to catch rats, can become problematic. IMHO ....
    Bruce is a "dog walker in inner west Melbourne" & sells "Healthy Dog treats." My dog Archie approves of these things.

  10. #20
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    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    Quote Originally Posted by LovelyDog View Post
    I think owners need to ask themselves if they are alpha enough to control the dog after it has tasted blood so regularly.
    ....
    I think this is a weird thing to say. A lot of people feed their dogs raw meat daily with no problems.

    I think maybe what you mean is that chasing and killing things can be hugely exciting and self rewarding (reinforcing) so a dog can become extremely excited by it - and if the owner has no control in that situation (hasn't trained their dog to listen when it's extremely excited about anything) and the owner continues to allow a behaviour they have no control over - this could be a problem.

    I don't think alpha and blood have much to do with it.

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