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Thread: Awesome Video about GSD's (and working breeds in general)

  1. #1

    Default Awesome Video about GSD's (and working breeds in general)

    This video sums up my sentiments better than I ever could.

    IPObservations Episode 2 The German Shepherd Curriculum - YouTube

  2. #2

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    '99bottles' - loved the video ! Agree with you wholeheartedly - and would love to see more - please !

  3. #3
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    IPO - is that a variety of competition form of schutzhund?

    I bet he doesn't know what sport DWD is. (Dances with Dogs). Even tho the heel work includes quite a few popular DWD moves.

    Apparently there is a schutzhund club in Adelaide somewhere - ok somewhere a long way from where I live in a more feral area of town. Tho that did not stop me from going to play hockey nearby.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    IPO - is that a variety of competition form of schutzhund?

    I bet he doesn't know what sport DWD is. (Dances with Dogs). Even tho the heel work includes quite a few popular DWD moves.

    Apparently there is a schutzhund club in Adelaide somewhere - ok somewhere a long way from where I live in a more feral area of town. Tho that did not stop me from going to play hockey nearby.
    These days there is virtually no difference between Schutzhund and IPO. They had very different beginnings and the rules used to be slightly different but now it's really all IPO. They are both sports developed with the intention of assessing working dogs (primarily GSD's) for their adherence to the breed standard in terms of physical and mental capabilities.

    There is a great 'Schutzhund/IPO' club in Adelaide, I used to be a member until I moved to Brisbane and it was through them that I obtained my BH with Sammy. It's the Adelaide Sport Dog Club - Home

    What I love about that video in particular is that it describes the place that the show ring has in assessing GSD's and other working breeds. Often people will say they're either working line or show line but, as in the video, I believe there should be greater synergy and accountability between the groups to truly ensure the betterment of the working breeds. If they can't achieve the working titles of their ancestors, I would argue strongly that they're not breeding true to standard and the same should be true for conformation titles. Of course, if they're breeding to a look that isn't conducive with achieving those working titles (the roached backs etc) well then that should be revised but if the groups were working together, this sort of thing would never happen in the first place.

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    I bet he doesn't know what sport DWD is. (Dances with Dogs). Even tho the heel work includes quite a few popular DWD moves.
    Thats because for some reason the ANKC recognised DWD as a sport over other internationally recognised dogsports.

    DWD took it's moves from things like Schutzhund and other dog sports. Schutzhund has been around since the creation of the German Shepherd breed and ALL GSDs in Germany that want to be bred from have to pass SCH1 minimum. Here is Australia the GSD Club refuses to encourage or acknowledge it as they believe it creates dangerous dogs (haha, hoho, yeah we see how they know better ...) The dogs also have to pass health tests, conformation criqitues etc. Saying that there are big kennel facilities in Germany where breeders pack off their dogs and they get trained all day every day to pass their Sch test in a short time frame.

    IPO/SCH is considered a sport now really, there are Labradors, border collies, aussie shepherds, cattle dogs etc with titles in the USA. As long as your dog plays tug you can get a Sch title.

    Personally I wish we had KNPV/Ringsport available here, it's a little more realistic then what IPO has become and you can't fudge things like the article guard.



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    I did schutzhund with bernie for the first year. The club i joined said there is no difference between IPO and Schutzhund. Especially as like me, you can take tests in all aspects, or some.
    They dream of only IPO or in this case Schutzhund qualified dogs are allowed to breed.
    I can see their point, but it smacks of Hitlers Arian race to me.
    The dogs at this club were either GSD's or Malinois. And one tiny teeny little fella that was a GSD trapped in a spaniels body lol

    I love to see shepherds working, and if you dont own sheep, IPO/Schutzhund is a excellent alternative.
    I never did see a aggressive dog, even during the bite work. I was impressed at what 'fun' the dogs had. Its all a huge game to the dogs. And nowt to do with aggression.
    Last edited by bernie; 03-19-2013 at 06:17 AM.

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    I can see their point, but it smacks of Hitlers Arian race to me.
    Why? Max Von Stephanitz would be turning in his grave with what has become of the breed he created, and he created the test for a reason - to keep a baseline of temperament, health and performance in the breed. It's a working breed, the fact it shot to popularity and has now become the most watered down and fiddled with dog on the planet is no excuse. Stephanitz developed the SV system in 1899 and the first Schutzhund trial was in 1901.

    1208.jpg

    This is Horand von Grafrath, the 'perfect' specimen of what the breed should be.

    I never did see a aggressive dog, even during the bite work. I was impressed at what 'fun' the dogs had. Its all a huge game to the dogs. And nowt to do with aggression.
    Because Schutzhund is not based on aggression, it's based on prey drive. And dog with enough nerve to play tug close to a human could potentially get a Schutzhund title. In some breeds like the Malinois people are moving away from Schutzhund lined dogs if they want a real working dog, they can be too highly strung and too soft for real work. KNPV (Royal Dutch K9) is still considered a more working title in the Malinois compared to Schutzhund.

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    99bottles

    That's the club I was thinking of. It's almost exactly between the two best hockey fields in Adelaide (the state sports stadium just off Main North Road over Grand Junction) and Port Adelaide HC (Up Hart St Off Bower Road).

    I reckon Frosty would love it. But I'd worry that I might train her to eat the lawnmower man if my mechanics (timing and placement) don't improve.

    I think she'd bite the bicycle wheel before she bit the bloke in the suit too.

    I will have to check what the ANKC rules about it are. Ie if they ban you for doing that it might be a bit hard to train in both.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    99bottles

    That's the club I was thinking of. It's almost exactly between the two best hockey fields in Adelaide (the state sports stadium just off Main North Road over Grand Junction) and Port Adelaide HC (Up Hart St Off Bower Road).

    I reckon Frosty would love it. But I'd worry that I might train her to eat the lawnmower man if my mechanics (timing and placement) don't improve.

    I think she'd bite the bicycle wheel before she bit the bloke in the suit too.

    I will have to check what the ANKC rules about it are. Ie if they ban you for doing that it might be a bit hard to train in both.
    It's not about training your dog to attack people... This is sports training, not protection training. I would not be confident in a dog to protect me from Sch training alone.
    We work the dogs in prey - ie they want the toy. A person then holds the toy (a helper) and if the dog is confident enough, it learns to take something from a person on command. Again, you will find that 99% of dogs will lose interest in the person entirely once they have the toy. To get a dog to be protective, you have to tap into defense drives (ie make the dog feel that it's in a threatening situation). Schutzhund doesn't do that, it teaches the dogs to respond to their handlers even when in high prey drive and it's all about play. That's why people like Nekhbet talk about other sports like French Ring etc because from Schtuzhund alone, you can't always know how that dog would stand up in a real situation. You know that the dog is trainable - that's essentially it. French Ring leaves little doubt.

    There are also 3 components to Schutzhund, Obedience, Tracking and then Character work - everyone seems to forget about the other two. You can't even start training the Character work until you have a BH, which means that you have a dog that is quite obedient, at least if you're working with an ethical club. There are a couple of different camps in the Schutzhund world - those who are Sch athletes who buy dogs for the purposes of the sport and then on the other hand, those that have dogs that are pets who think their dogs would enjoy the sport but the dog is a pet first and foremost. My dog is still a pet first and foremost and the sport is very much about painting a clear picture for the dog - if he walks onto a field with blinds and someone in a bite suit, he becomes visibly excited but without those features he's just his normal self because he is socialised beyond Schutzhund. I don't believe I have awakened anything within my dog through taking part in that sport, he was always very high drive. All I have done is achieved a much greater degree of obedience and reliability when my dog is in drive. I can call him off a cat now (ie a true distraction recall) and I couldn't do that before our training so I think it has actually meant that I have a dog that is much less likely to attack or cause damage to another person or animal.

    If you have a dog with the genes that would make it good at Schutzhund, natural drives etc, then your dog will be safer once you have worked with the dog in those drives.

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