View Poll Results: How important is the location of your breeder?

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  • VERY IMPORTANT!

    0 0%
  • Important!

    1 16.67%
  • Indifferent

    2 33.33%
  • NOT important!

    2 33.33%
  • Definitely NOT important!

    1 16.67%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Choosing a 'good' Samoyed Breeder

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Choosing a 'good' Samoyed Breeder

    Hi Samoyed People,

    Our family is looking for a Samoyed from a good breeder. We have done over 6 weeks of research so far, reading lots of articles and learning as much about the breed as possible.

    We are looking for a good breeder because we understand that a dog is a decade long (or more) commitment and NOT an impulse decision. Although a dog is a financial investment initially, it is also a member of the family and becomes an emotional investment that appreciates greatly overtime. Sometimes becoming more valuable than other family members! Naturally, the better the breeder, the better we will feel about the long term! After all, you never know! Things can get rough in 5 years and a good breeder will be good to have around!

    The problem right now is finding a 'good' breeder and how to distinguish between them all. I've spoken to a handful of breeders extensively over the phone and email. Some are friendly and eager to talk for hours whilst others are unfriendly, impatient and snappy. But does friendliness necessarily make them 'good breeders'? Maybe, maybe not. I've noticed that the friendlier breeders are usually reputable, have better looking dogs and recommended by other breeders in the breeder community. The friendlier breeders are also willing to share personal experiences! Some and disclose testing information openly such as health (e.g. hip scores, eye scores etc) and temperament test results. Some openly brag about their show achievements (e.g. points, australian champion, australian grand champion etc). But are facts (i.e. test scores) alone enough to make a decision? How about personal experiences? How about the breeder as a person and how friendly they are? There's A LOT to take in! The more research we do the more difficult it has become to make a decision, albeit a right one!

    Then there's the timing question of, 'When will you have puppies?'. It would be (almost) pointless building a relationship with a breeder, keeping tabs, checking waiting list status etc if the breeder plans to have puppies in over 12 months!

    Initially we were going to do a first come first serve basis. We had assumed ALL breeders were the same, give or take a few champion dogs. We were mistaken! After getting ALL THE INFORMATION from this particular breeder (who was first to have puppies available) we realised that there was A LOT OF FINE PRINT!! For example, non-refundable deposit policy, pixelated photos, ambiguous post sales support, with very specific and evasive wording in the contract and emails. Whenever I had a specific (sometimes obscure) question that I wanted to ask 'just in case', it would be replied with a blunt and open ended answer. So now I feel 'first come first serve' is NOT the way to go about choosing. We need to be patient.

    There's also local VS interstate VS international? What are the pros and cons? What are the costs involved? Wouldn't local be better, logistically speaking?

    Now, I am compiling a list of breeders and ranking them:
    1. When are puppies due?
    2. What are the breeder's credentials?
    3. What are the puppy's parents credentials i.e. BOTH the mum and dad?
    3. Is the breeder friendly AND approachable?
    4. Is the contract mutually fair?
    5. Are they recommended by other breeders?
    6. Are they recommended by other customers? Hence my first forum post!
    7. Do I feel comfortable making a purchase from this breeder?
    8. Are the puppies sound? Do the puppies reflect their good parentage?
    10. Can I see puppies before making a deposit?
    11. Can I choose a puppy or will it be chosen for me?
    12. Are they local? or interstate?

    I know most peoples' selection criteria is subjective and very personal. I want to reinforce that I'm a NOOBIE and this is just my list, NOT something that I'm prescribing to others. If ANYONE has ANYTHING to add, please feel free to do so and PLEASE COMMENT! I'm sure this info will help others as it will help our family in making a decision. The more input the merrier!

    Thanks guys!

    N.B. Sorry if this is in the wrong section. Admin can feel free to move this thread to another forum topic.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Bundaberg QLD
    Posts
    3,301

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    I've only dealt with a breeder once. I thought i was travelling a long way (2hours) to see my pup but other people had travelled about 7 hours for thier pup and one pup was been flown to victoria !!! Its a risk i guess if the pups are so far away you cant visit them and see them and thier living conditions first hand but if you trust them (and the breeder trusts you) i think it's worth the hassle for a good pup. The costs involved with vet care of badly bred pup would easily outweigh the travel expenses of getting a great pup.
    My breeder had also sent a pup all the way to Hawaii !!! Now thats keen !!

    I wouldnt go anywhere near a breeder or thier pups if they are been rude and snappy over the phone. I built up a relationship with mine over a 3 month period through phone calls, emails and eventually a couple of visits. Time seemed to drag on forever as i was getting excited to get my pup but the wait was worth it in the long run. If a breeder wants to sell thier pups and give them too you before they are 8 weeks old, avoid them aswell.

    Sounds like you've done your homework......great stuff. Good luck and please show us some pics once you finally get a pup.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
    Education is important, but big biceps are more importanter ...
    DONT SIC YOUR DOGMA ON ME !

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    745

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    Start with a well constructed email to all the breeders that catch your eye, eg are testing for required diseases in the breed and are within driving distance.

    If it was me it would go something along the lines of.

    Hi, my family and I have researched several breeds but keep coming back to the samoyed. We believe we shall be a good match for this breed (list reasons why) - and are prepared for the grooming commitment - ('make sure you are')

    We are a family of eg 4, two adults and two children aged and ('or whatever your family structure is)'. We would like to make this puppy part of our family and he/she will be allowed in the house when someone is home and will sleep in a crate in our room or in the laundry ('make sure you have thought this out'), we have a good sized safe garden with 5ft high fences (describe your home and yard)

    We work part-time/full-time (state hours of work) and how many hours puppy will be home alone. (State if you have any other pets.)

    We have researched the breed but would love to hear what it is like to live with a samoyed from someone who is a long time owner. Is there a preferred time I could ring you? (Remember that if a breeder was to ring every person that emailed them and left a mobile number their phone bill would be expensive).

    We understand that good breeders don't breed all the time, mainly when they intend keeping a puppy for themselves but would like to know if you are planning any litters this year or early next year? And if so if we would be a suitable match for one of your puppies.
    Last edited by MAC; 07-23-2012 at 08:25 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    745

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    Probably I would also add in that last paragraph. If you are not planning any litters is there anyone you would recommend.

    I have bought dogs from interstate but as a person who shows and breeds I can generally ask somebody all about the breeder and their dogs. I have sold puppies interstate on a few occasions and when I do I'm super fussy and have to really have a good feeling for that person over many many conversations.

    Breeders who don't reply to email contact annoy me. However understand that I get several per week, most people want a puppy now and have this expectation that we breed constantly and make money from it, so that's why I say to make sure you present what you've got to offer to one of their puppies, not initally what they've got to offer you.

    Deposits. Some breeders like a deposit as a person has to really commit to them, which means they can sort out a waiting list.

    I don't really do waiting lists as I don't do deposits. A person will either be committed and there at the end or they won't and if they need money to hold them to it I'm not interested in them. Most people are very fickle and will drop a breeder if they find another breeder is having a litter sooner.

    However if I was to leave a deposit I would expect it to be non refundable if I draw out of the deal but refundable if the breeder pulls out of the deal eg; no puppy was available, puppies didn't survive.
    Last edited by MAC; 07-23-2012 at 08:45 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,583

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    This is how I'd order choosing a breeder...

    A - are they a responsible breeder?
    as per the RSPCA criteria
    What is a responsible companion animal breeder? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase
    How do I find a good dog breeder? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

    B - given you want a samoyed - is the Breeder registered with the ANKC?
    because otherwise - how would you know what you're getting?

    2. What are the breeder's credentials?
    what credentials are important to you, and can you verify with an independent source, not just the breeder's website and on website testimonials.

    C 7. Do I feel comfortable making a purchase from this breeder?
    Please don't buy from someone who makes no sense to you.
    I would only buy from a breeder where I could meet the parent dogs, and that were active in their breed club. I wouldn't care so much if they were not winning prizes but I'd want to know they were really keen about the breed. Ie I'd be going along to the breed club events and shows.

    D 5. Are they recommended by other breeders?
    get to a dog show where the Samoyeds are on - or visit the samoyed club.
    if they care about their dogs and puppies you're way more likely to get one
    if they know you - face to face.

    E 4. Is the contract mutually fair?
    possibly best to avoid contract that gives you co-ownership. It's a bit like being co-tenant on a lease. At the same time, if it's not working out with your puppy, the breeder should be your first place to go back to. And it should be clear when you can return for a full refund, part refund or just return (rather than risk the dog PTS or used in a puppy mill).

    F 3. What are the puppy's parents credentials i.e. BOTH the mum and dad?
    this is part of the breeder's credentials, being a responsible breeder - and being a member of the ANKC - ie the breeder is supposed to get genetic health tests and only breed to improve the breed and reduce the chance of hereditary diseases. It will help you if you know what a samoyed is at risk of, and you sight paperwork to show that testing of the parents has been done and the risk is minimised.
    Disorders by Breed - Samoyed - LIDA Dogs - Faculty of Veterinary Science - The University of Sydney

    G 8. Are the puppies sound? Do the puppies reflect their good parentage?
    the puppies should be healthy looking, had at least one vaccination and some worming, and be microchippped before you pay for the one you're getting. ANKC members are not to rehome unhealthy puppies. Really you want to visit the breeder's place and see that it is well kept and hygienic.

    H 6. Are they recommended by other customers? Hence my first forum post!
    best way to find this out - is to go where the samoyeds are - ask the owners where they got theirs and how they feel about the process. So dog shows, samoyed club in your state, or dog obedience clubs would be a good start.

    I 3. Is the breeder friendly AND approachable?
    Breeders often get along better with their dogs than with people so I wouldn't be overly concerned about this. A lot of them are technophobes too, so they have email addresses but they get so much crap that way they may not notice or respond to your email. Much better to meet them face to face after a phone conversation. If you can say something articulate about why you like their favourite breed then hopefully they will be friendly and approachable and talk a lot about their dogs and why they like their breed.

    J 10. Can I see puppies before making a deposit?
    I think you should see the potential puppy parents first.

    K 11. Can I choose a puppy or will it be chosen for me?
    it would probably be chosen for you if someone is breedng for the betterment of the breed - because they will want their best puppy for themselves and other people they know are also breeding to improve the breed. They will also know which are the most outgoing and most quiet in the litter and match according to what you've told them about yourself. You might get lucky and get to choose - and then I'd choose the friendly puppy.

    L 1. When are puppies due?
    Given the bitch only comes into season every 6 months and doesn't always get pregnant - and shouldn't be bred more often than once every couple of years - this could be a while with your top choice breeder. How patient are you? The breeder who always has puppies for sale is most likely to be a puppy farm, not breeding for the best dogs or owners or puppy well being and will meet very few if any of the criteria for responsible breeder. You might get lucky with a good breeder who had an unexpectedly large litter or some last minute pikers (and no waiting list?).

    M 12. Are they local? or interstate?
    I'd much rather buy local or somewhere I could visit interstate. Buying from someone you don't know from overseas or unknown interstate can result in scams or unhealthy puppies and then it's really hard to get it fixed.

  6. #6

    Default Keep the replies coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
    Email template thingamajig.
    I'm actually the super keen super type who's emails look EXACTLY like this, word for word like in your template. How uncanny! - But, good advice! Calling definitely is better, albeit less thorough compared to email. I'm yet to visit any shows... which I'm sure would be very rewarding. Having a chat with different breeders over the phone seems good enough so far. Although, there's a super-cool Samoyed show coming up! It's organised by the club and it's for current/future puppy owners! That should be ideal!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Answers addressing each of my questions...
    Excellent insight! However, I wasn't asking those questions literally to you forum readers. The questions were more like probes to get answers to assist my decision process - I see them as guidelines. There's no right or wrong answer.

    PERSONAL PERSONAL PERSONAL - They say dogs often resemble their owners. The replies here are few but they are STRONG. It goes to show everyone has a personal preference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I 3. Is the breeder friendly AND approachable?
    Breeders often get along better with their dogs than with people so I wouldn't be overly concerned about this. A lot of them are technophobes too, so they have email addresses but they get so much crap that way they may not notice or respond to your email. Much better to meet them face to face after a phone conversation. If you can say something articulate about why you like their favourite breed then hopefully they will be friendly and approachable and talk a lot about their dogs and why they like their breed.
    So true! Makes sense... Dogs are the best aren't they!! They have low expectations, they don't judge, they have unconditional love, they listen to you... and they're generally not assholes! And, if they are assholes, you can train them NOT to be! So good... What I wouldn't give to be reborn as a dog!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Deposits
    Makes sense... I suppose if you're popular enough, a deposit from a customer makes the short-listing process much much simpler. Money first, questions later. Recently I came across a breeder who was asking for money well before answering the questions I had... I mean, what's the point in sending me a survey with 101 questions? It's just a waste of everyone's time.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
    Fair contract for the non-refundable deposit
    This breeder didn't even clarify how the deposit would work logistically. It was literally, "Non-refundable." - So, that reads non-refundable, FULL STOP. No buts, no ifs, no what ifs. Just simply non-refundable!

    I personally don't agree with that method of doing business, no matter how popular the breeder is. I wouldn't pay a non-refundable deposit on anything except maybe a kidney or heart. I've never heard of such a thing.

    Overall, I agree with everyone so far... But guys, please keep the replies coming!! It's really interesting to see how everyone's got a different point of view. I'm glad I've been patient (and trying to remain so) by turning down offers for puppies/dogs in hope of finding the right breeder/puppy.

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