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Thread: Examples of Stupidity at it's finest

  1. #11
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    @choppachop

    I agree with K&P, if you punish a dog for giving a warning that it is uncomfortable - it will just learn to suppress the warning and go directly to biting. Warnings are good - they alert you and give you a chance to protect your dog from the situation that upsets it.

    The "Look at That" (LAT) technique as described by Lesley McDevitt in "Control Unleashed" is for training reactive dogs to be calm... and it involves working with the dog where it can still pay attention to you - not when it's completely over the top out of control - so you might need to start at a big distance to the distraction (thing the dog reacts to). Then you reward the dog for looking at the distraction. This may seem counter intuitive but it changes the meaning of the distraction for the dog. Turns it into a fun game instead of something to be anxious or upset or predatory about. Reward so that the dog is looking at you then say "look at that", when the dog looks at their trigger/distraction, say "yes" (or click) - most dogs familiar with clicker training for anything else will look to you for the treat - reward while the dog is looking at you. If the dog can't look at you, the dog is too close, increase your distance. Do five minutes of this, and a very high rate of treats. Eg 18 tiny treats a minute is about right. Practice every day if you can. For me - the lawn mower man doesn't show up every day but we practice when he does. He's very exciting.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    Not being rude or poking the bear here again ....honest question.

    K&P , if not correcting/managing/dealing with reaction behaviour , what would you suggest happen? Just allow the reaction ? As some know I'm dealing with a reactive dog at the moment and I can assure you its not pretty there is simply no way it can be ignored.

    I know exactly what it is like dealing with a reactive dog. Keira is highly reactive and dog aggressive.
    Issuing a correction isn't going to fix the reactivity.

    She reacts because she has a bad association with other dogs (pain, because she has severe bilateral hip displaxia which causes her pain when dogs play/jump on her and because I mishandled the leash when she was young). Creating MORE pain is only going to make her more reactive. Reactivity is a dog using distance increasing behaviour to make the other dog go away because they do not want to feel the pain they associate with other dogs. "Look at me I am big and scary and loud, dont come near".
    The fix for this is counter conditioning and desensitization. Ie: start creating a positive association with other dogs whilst systematically getting them used to the presence of other dogs.
    Ie: find your dogs "critical distance" (the distance in which they have to be from a dog for them not to be reacting to it) and then use food or verbal praise (the reward would depend on what the dog finds most rewarding) to reward the dog for looking at the other dog and not reacting. Slowly over time you work on decreasing the critical distance.

    It took me about 1 - 2 weeks using this method to get Keira to walk past a barking dog on a patio about 10 metres from the footpath without stopping and reacting. Initially she was reacting just to the patio (no dog) because previously a dog had barked at her from there. Unfortunately Keira's hips and the rest of her body are deteriorating and we don't walk as often, plus we live near an industrial park now, so to cause her less stress and strain on her body we walk there.

    - Hya got there while I was still responding

  3. #13
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    Dec 2011
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    Logan, Brisbane QLD
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    I get that all the time too.. doesn't help that my dogs are smaller & fluffy so people 'think' they are friendly... Rex has a huge problem with dogs approaching us with him still on the lead. I think he feels because he is on the lead, he needs to try even harder to protect us, so he often starts frothing at the mouth and making crazy eyes... and still that isn't enough to deter some owners from coming towards us. Sigh.. I just tighten up his lead so he is directly beside me with no room to swing and use my body to block an oncoming dog. But yes unfortunately some people don't have a clue and i'm ashamed that i was like that once upon a time and would let Molly go up to other dogs.

  4. #14
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    There is the LAT and The BAT all are much the same..I use BAT

    Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA

    I also lived with a full on people and dog aggressive dogs and you can train/work past it........We initially did some aversion training, because it was 5 years ago and I did not know any better...but I have since used the BAT system and also on quite a few other dogs successfully.

    These dogs, including my Annabelle are now very social and cope well in all situations..BUT......you are always managing these dogs and you have to protect them from idiots.

    But with the help and Turid Rugaas, I can now take her in any situation as long as I am there. I still think that reading dogs and adding calming signs to these systems makes them even better and using some home management to give Good Leadership makes for the complete training/management.

    Many people do not realise how things at home has a lot to do with how dogs cope in any environment. It is not all about training, environment is also very important.........
    Pets are forever

  5. #15
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    Whenever i am walking Koda (always on lead) if i see another dog, i will usually move a small distance away... but if its off lead i always move as far away as i can get cause i don't know what that dog will be like and with koda's aggression there could be some serious consequences!
    I dred the day that i am walking koda and some idiot has their uncontrollable dog off lead and it runs up to koda to say hello and he lashes out
    To be honest i don't think people should walk their dogs off lead (except for off leash parks) Its silly really cause they say "oh don't worry my dog's really friendly!"
    and i sit there thinking to myself "really? and if it runs up to my dog, who's not friendly with all dogs? what happens then?"

  6. #16
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    Even when we go fishing, we have Oskar on a leash tied up, and people walk past (some with their leashes off) and we still get glared at when our goddamn dog is tied up!!! I feel like saying "what's your f*&king problem, he's tied up, shouldn't you do the same??"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keira & Phoenix View Post
    You are not helping a reactive dog by correcting it around dogs, you are creating a further bad association and you will make the reactivity worse.
    And in fact if he is telling a dog off for being in his face and rude, then why does he deserve a correction? If you saw his body language as being uncomfortable and wanting the dog to move away from him that means that he was displaying that particular body language to tell the other dog to back off, he was then ignored, so he escalated his warning to a bark/snap and then he was corrected for that behaviour.
    If you continue to correct appropriate warning behaviour, he will extinguish the behaviour and go straight to biting.
    I think you misunderstood what I meant by correction...? We didn't correct him by means of P+, I mean we resolved the issue and calmed him immediately as not to cause further stress for anyone. He was not punished so much as his behaviour was stopped by interruption.

    I'm sorry you misunderstood what I meant. I know that correcting a dog for exhibiting warning sign is utterly stupid. I've been saying that in other threads all along.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    There is the LAT and The BAT all are much the same..I use BAT

    Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA

    I also lived with a full on people and dog aggressive dogs and you can train/work past it........We initially did some aversion training, because it was 5 years ago and I did not know any better...but I have since used the BAT system and also on quite a few other dogs successfully.

    These dogs, including my Annabelle are now very social and cope well in all situations..BUT......you are always managing these dogs and you have to protect them from idiots.

    But with the help and Turid Rugaas, I can now take her in any situation as long as I am there. I still think that reading dogs and adding calming signs to these systems makes them even better and using some home management to give Good Leadership makes for the complete training/management.

    Many people do not realise how things at home has a lot to do with how dogs cope in any environment. It is not all about training, environment is also very important.........
    I use BAT too. It works so quickly with the dogs I work with. I was using BAT with Muffy before she left to go to the other foster and the new foster is continuing the BAT training at her house and out on walks.

    I ahve not tried calming signals as yet. I must look into it straight away!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oskar's mum View Post
    Even when we go fishing, we have Oskar on a leash tied up, and people walk past (some with their leashes off) and we still get glared at when our goddamn dog is tied up!!! I feel like saying "what's your f*&king problem, he's tied up, shouldn't you do the same??"
    Where the same when we go fishing we always have him on a leash and I even take my own tent peg to knock in the ground for his leash, works great.

    I usually fish pelican waters with my boys but the fishing has been very average this winter and even when we went to Noosa in our tinnie the fish were not playing ball.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amstaffy4pal View Post
    Where the same when we go fishing we always have him on a leash and I even take my own tent peg to knock in the ground for his leash, works great.

    I usually fish pelican waters with my boys but the fishing has been very average this winter and even when we went to Noosa in our tinnie the fish were not playing ball.
    Yeah we haven't been out in the tinny for about a year but for a bit of a fish we go to the reserve just near the goldn beach/pelican waters bridge. We bought one of those screw in things that goes into the ground and Oskar is attached to the end of it....we have caught some nice fish from under that bridge actually.

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