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Thread: Problem Breeding same breed different size HELP!

  1. #11
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    Oct 2009
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    There is a thread here of someone who did what you want to do and there were a lot of problems, a LOT of vet expenses and I mean a LOT.
    I can't for the life of me find it and I hope someone else can link to it. I thought it was made a sticky.

    Please read it before you make up your mind.
    Last edited by Di_dee1; 07-05-2012 at 11:51 PM.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  2. #12
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    Ok so you want to be an ethical breeder. Well you have to start with good genetics. And if neither of your dogs are papered (ANKC registered) then you don't have a pedigree to check potential inherited problems against.

    "Vet check" usually just indicates that the particular dog is not obviously ill. Doesn't guarantee healthy puppies.

    So if your dogs aren't pedigreee it is up to you to ensure that they are at least clear of health problems common to pomeranians BEFORE you mate them to each other. Even if they only have a condition in a small degree that doesn't really affect their health, quite often puppies who inherit that small condition from both parents will become seriously ill with it and have short, sad lives. Ethical breeders go the whole ten yards to avoid that happening.

    What should you do? Here is a link to an Australian study of the inheritable diseases known in Australian Pomeranians. You need to print it out, take both these dogs to a reputable vet and ask him to test for any signs of these conditions in your dogs. If that vet is quite happy to sign off that both of your dogs show no signs of any of these conditions and may be considered suitable for producing healthy happy puppies then go right ahead and breed them. Otherwise desex and start again with health tested breeding quality dogs from an ethical breeder.

    The tests won't guarantee that your current dogs produce healthy puppies because either could be a carrier (they give puppies the genes for some ailment that their parents or grandparents had or carried, but do not suffer from that condition themselves) but hey, you haven't got pedigrees so you have to start from scratch with the health testing.

    Here is the list of ailments, fingers crossed that you want to be a good ethical breeder and not just a fly by night puppy producer.

    Disorders by Breed - Pomeranian - LIDA Dogs - Faculty of Veterinary Science - The University of Sydney

  3. #13
    Join Date
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    http://www.dogforum.com.au/general-d...you-breed.html

    Did you ask the vet what the health risks are to a bitch that has puppies? Vets only answer the questions you ask. And vets make money out of puppies so they may not want to discourage you. Some vets don't care about all the unwanted dogs in this world.

    Did you ask the vet what genetic problems your pair might have (apart from the obvious height mismatch and complications that go with that), did you get them tested and cleared - so you don't have lots of unhealthy puppies?

    Are you a responsible breeder?
    What is a responsible companion animal breeder? - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase

    What happened to the puppies from your previous litters? What are you going to do with these ones - keep them all? Most city councils have a limit on how many dogs you can have.

    If you sell or give away any of the puppies - they must all be microchipped first.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 07-06-2012 at 12:14 AM.

  4. #14
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    True or false - there is a NSW code of practice for breeding dogs (and cats) and there are legal consequences if the code is not followed.

    True or false - records must be kept for each animal involved in the breeding - including microchip number, description, name, date of birth, details of vet visits and treatments...

    True or false - records must be kept detailing each litter, including name and microchip number of both parents, date of whelping, id details for each puppy including ones that die.

    True or false - breeder must have a written plan that describes what is done to control insect pests and other parasites.

    True or false - where your breeding dogs live - must be cleaned daily and disinfected weekly...

    True or false - contact details for the vet must be posted wehre everyone can see it.

    True or false - dogs must be vaccinated before breeding. Puppies must be vaccinated too - as per vet recommendations

    True or false - puppies must not be rehomed before they are 8 weeks old

    True or false - puppies must not be sold to people under 18 years old.

    True or false - all puppies must be vaccinated before being sold.

    True or false - all puppy buyers must be offered written information on how to care for their puppies.

    True or false - the breeder must offer a 3 day return and 50% refund guarantee, provided in writing.

    True or false - the breeder cannot sell a sick puppy.

    True or false - bitches should not be deliberately mated in their first cycle and not more than two litters in any two year period.

    True or false - the breeder (in NSW) is supposed to know all this.

    http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...f-practice.pdf

  5. #15
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    Sounds like a good thing that the dog can't reach the bitch. Jeeze here comes possibly another 12 pups to fill pound cages around Australia. If you're not registered, your dogs are not properly health tested, you do not have homes lined up already and deposits taken to ensure people follow through YOU SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING.

    In case you haven't noticed Australia already has a large oversupply of dogs/puppies. To many pets and not enough homes willing to fill them and look after them properly. Seems some people care more about money than the Thousands of dogs getting put down weekly around the country.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  6. #16
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    Hmmm guys, there's no point being rude to this lad or ladette.... there going to breed them no matter what you say unfortunately.
    No one loves you like your dog does.

  7. #17
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    theres also no point in sugar coating it for their benefit.........

    i dont think anyone has been rude, jsut given the cold hard facts........."you want the truth, you cant handle the truth" :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    I love 2 things in this world. Spandex and reyzor... not necessarily in that order.

  8. #18

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    Two things I see...ignorance is going to breed like wildfire.

    I see no rudeness either. I see alot of caring people trying to put in an informed opinion. Because they care about animals.

    Not the opinion the poster wanted, he wanted a DIY step ladder plan...but if a poster wants to post then they need to be ready for opinions, good or bad.

    To the poster, sorry your name escapes me...please please consider what you are doing very carefully. Are you ready for the knowledge that your bred pups could have a long list of issues?
    Are you ready for the knowledge that some of your pups could end up in an animal shelter or death row?
    Are you ready to accept that some of your pups could well be abused by horrid people?

    Oh yes all of these things can and do happen !!

    I myself would never want the knowledge of knowing this so I choose to de sex.

  9. #19
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    I meant the people saying "sorryif this sounds rude" meaning they know it might sound rude to others. -.-
    No one loves you like your dog does.

  10. #20
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    No matter how you go about it it's likely to sound rude, because they want to breed these two dogs when most people know it shouldn't happen.

    My personal advice would be to desex both animals.

    And please remember that your dog could get hurt. Using a slightly smaller dog is not totally unusual though generally speaking the height difference is never enough to deter a successful mating but most breeders will supervise and assist so the stud doesn't get damaged.

    Most likely the stud is inexperienced and the size difference is making things just a little bit harder and the bitch may not be right in as most dogs regardless of size differences can unfortunately mate with no assistance at all.

    But I do urge you to think very carefully if you need to add more puppies to this world. Things can and do go wrong. Putting a litter on the ground is an expensive exercise that requires lots of thought, time, & money. Then after 8 weeks when it's time for them to go to their new homes, you have to hope like hell that you selected the right homes.

    Have you got a suitable place for the bitch to whelp? can you stay home and supervise her as her due date nears? can you stay at home and supervise her day and night for 3 or 4 days after they are born? can you afford the increase in food bill (quantity and quality) up to and after the puppies are born, can you afford worming, feeding, microchipping and vaccinations of the puppies, can you afford to keep them if they all do not sell? can you afford the vet bill if something goes wrong? etc etc etc.

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