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Thread: Growling

  1. #61
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    Mosh, please don't take this the wrong way - but you seriously expect your dogs to accept whatever a human does to it and never complain? Seriously? And you would 'discipline' any dog that dared tell you it was unhappy? How else do you expect any dog to tell you it's being hurt except by making vocal indications? Telepathy?

    Sheesh, what must you do to your kids that speak out of turn?

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    I really don't think I want to discipline the dog for growling because that could make it more likely that she will snap without warning in the future. And she doesn't growl when they're playing, only when my daughter leans on her too hard - which she tends to do absentmindedly when watching tv or whatever.
    If it's a relaxed groan then it's all fine, the dog doesn't mean anything by it. If it's an angry growl then you should tell her "NO" and make her sit on the floor whenever she does it. She's got no reason to be angry while lying on your daughter, it's supposed to be a happy time. If she isn't in any pain, she's got no excuse for it.

    As for disciplining her for growling, don't worry. Dogs are smart enough to recognize context. It's ok to give a dog a consequence when it growls for the wrong reason. For example you should expect to be growled at if you deliberately hurt your dog with malicious intent, but growling is unacceptable if you want to take things out of her mouth, give her a vaccination shot, or sit in her spot on the couch. Similarly it is not ok to snap or bite, warning or no warning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkest View Post
    Mosh, please don't take this the wrong way - but you seriously expect your dogs to accept whatever a human does to it and never complain? Seriously? And you would 'discipline' any dog that dared tell you it was unhappy? How else do you expect any dog to tell you it's being hurt except by making vocal indications? Telepathy?

    Sheesh, what must you do to your kids that speak out of turn?
    I absolutely do expect my dog to accept whatever a human does to it, I don't care how unhappy it is. You should be able to do a wide range of things to a dog that it does not enjoy (medication, washing, cleaning its teeth, examining an injury, carrying it, trimming its nails, taking things out of its mouth, etc), because they are in its best interests and because it trusts you. You also should not have to worry about your dog growling at children, if the dog doesn't enjoy contact with a child it should move away and never growl or snap. It's an unspoken agreement between dog and owner - "I won't growl at you or bite you if you'll always do what's best for me".

    Growling is a communication just like speaking is - it can be acceptable or unacceptable. It is absolutely unacceptable for a dog to growl at a human during a normal interaction, just like it is unacceptable for a child to swear at a parent. Dogs are smart enough to be able to communicate appropriately to situations without biting, snapping, or growling. Of course it is perfectly acceptable for a dog to growl and bark at an attacker or burglar and dogs know this.

    A dog that bites or growls has to be disciplined, and this usually means the removal of a privilege.
    *If they are on the couch or the bed, they sit on the floor.
    *If they are eating or chewing on something, it gets taken away.
    *If they are being cuddled, the cuddle ends.
    *If they are inside, they go outside.

    The dog will figure out that certain behaviours are socially acceptable and others are not. You can reinforce this by rewarding the dog when it doesn't growl in situations where it would usually growl.

  3. #63
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    Mosh - I do the same, my dogs have to learn to tolerate children, and while i always watch they dont get to rough...I have always disiplined past dogs when they growl as in "get away".
    I always remember my sister used to allow her poodle to protect its chair, bowl and anything else it like. She thought children should stay away from her dog also when it growled//and it did bite faces.

    But a growl IMO is a warning i am going to bite...explain that to a 2 year old. I know it goes against what behaviourists say, but i never had a dog past puppyhood growl at a child, nor have they ever snapped or bitten....they just move away, or if i knew the visiting kids were nutters...i would protect the dog from possibly getting to that point...by keeping the kids or dog away.

    I just think better to be safe than sorry!
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    If it's a relaxed groan then it's all fine, the dog doesn't mean anything by it. If it's an angry growl then you should tell her "NO" and make her sit on the floor whenever she does it. She's got no reason to be angry while lying on your daughter, it's supposed to be a happy time. If she isn't in any pain, she's got no excuse for it.

    As for disciplining her for growling, don't worry. Dogs are smart enough to recognize context. It's ok to give a dog a consequence when it growls for the wrong reason. For example you should expect to be growled at if you deliberately hurt your dog with malicious intent, but growling is unacceptable if you want to take things out of her mouth, give her a vaccination shot, or sit in her spot on the couch. Similarly it is not ok to snap or bite, warning or no warning.



    I absolutely do expect my dog to accept whatever a human does to it, I don't care how unhappy it is. You should be able to do a wide range of things to a dog that it does not enjoy (medication, washing, cleaning its teeth, examining an injury, carrying it, trimming its nails, taking things out of its mouth, etc), because they are in its best interests and because it trusts you. You also should not have to worry about your dog growling at children, if the dog doesn't enjoy contact with a child it should move away and never growl or snap. It's an unspoken agreement between dog and owner - "I won't growl at you or bite you if you'll always do what's best for me".

    Growling is a communication just like speaking is - it can be acceptable or unacceptable. It is absolutely unacceptable for a dog to growl at a human during a normal interaction, just like it is unacceptable for a child to swear at a parent. Dogs are smart enough to be able to communicate appropriately to situations without biting, snapping, or growling. Of course it is perfectly acceptable for a dog to growl and bark at an attacker or burglar and dogs know this.

    A dog that bites or growls has to be disciplined, and this usually means the removal of a privilege.
    *If they are on the couch or the bed, they sit on the floor.
    *If they are eating or chewing on something, it gets taken away.
    *If they are being cuddled, the cuddle ends.
    *If they are inside, they go outside.

    The dog will figure out that certain behaviours are socially acceptable and others are not. You can reinforce this by rewarding the dog when it doesn't growl in situations where it would usually growl.
    You expect an awful lot from your dog. My children know to leave Oskar alone for a while if he growls. If he didn't warn them vocally, they would continue harrassing him. He is a very patient dog but unlike you, I let my dog have his little growl. I have taught him to be patient, I can put my hand in his food bowl while he is eating, I can do almost anything...but I have caught my children pulling his tail and have told them off for that....should he be able to tolerate that too?...I don't thinkso.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    I just think better to be safe than sorry!
    Absolutely, now more than ever - even a relatively light bite can result in a death sentence for a dog, especially in Victoria. You are doing your dog a favour by teaching it to properly interact with kids.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oskar's mum View Post
    You expect an awful lot from your dog. My children know to leave Oskar alone for a while if he growls. If he didn't warn them vocally, they would continue harrassing him. He is a very patient dog but unlike you, I let my dog have his little growl. I have taught him to be patient, I can put my hand in his food bowl while he is eating, I can do almost anything...but I have caught my children pulling his tail and have told them off for that....should he be able to tolerate that too?...I don't thinkso.
    Yes I do expect a lot from my dog, as everyone should. I'm constantly challenging her with new situations. Dogs are very smart and capable creatures. By telling your children off when they pull his tail, you are using your authority so he doesn't have to tolerate it. He should be relying on you to protect him, and you are. It's your job to stop anyone from hurting him, and it sounds like you are doing your job. However if you're not around, he needs to escape from the situation, not stand his ground and growl. Society is far more kind to naughty children than to dogs who growl or bite when they are annoyed. It's unfair, but that's just the way it is.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    Absolutely, now more than ever - even a relatively light bite can result in a death sentence for a dog, especially in Victoria. You are doing your dog a favour by teaching it to properly interact with kids.
    I guess that is why I feel how i do, growling in the agressive context can lead to a bite...which can lead to having the dog put down no matter if the child was harrassing it.

    Its only my opinion but if a child has stiches on her face, and you try explaoning the kid was harrassing the dog and he is entitled to defend himself....not sure that would be a good defence at the hearing as to whether he should be destroyed or not.....

    And your right whether we agree or not...thats the way it is.!
    Last edited by cavalierqld; 06-28-2012 at 11:42 PM.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #68
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    Im fine with growling.
    Id put any dog of mine to sleep in a instant, if it attacked a child of mine, shit id probably give it a red hot a go myself. Very protective mum here.

    For our fosters, who were aggressive and growled, i had pounds/crates and very highly trained children. Dont go in there, it will bite. Obey me or lose your face.

    But both of my dogs are growlers. Bernie growls 24/7. its not an aggressive growl however. And now pohm is copying the behaviour as she sees the classical conditioning of humans going on, and wants a piece of it.

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