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Thread: Scary dogs?

  1. #61
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    I think I used to have a low tolerance for people who wouldn't let their dogs socialise and I also had a "the dogs will sort it out themselves" attitude. But then I did have a dog who often got into scuffles - usually instigated by her - and never actually bit or got bitten herself, so I had a pretty high tolerance for that kind of aggressive display. But I had no real understanding of what real DA was.

    But talking to people who have/had DA dogs has changed my outlook quite a bit. None of those people intended to make their dogs that way, in some cases it was caused through inexperience (which I can relate to), in other because of events that they had no control over. But they still want the same for their dogs as any other owner who loves their dogs.

    I have no sympathy for people with DA dogs who don't do everything possible to prevent their dog attacking other dogs. But I have lots of sympathy for those who do and are subjected to people who do not respect their right to take their dog out and keep them away from other dogs. Because it is already so much harder for them to meet their dogs' needs.

    I also would never get annoyed for a dog growling or snapping at my dog to tell them to back off. Rarely happens to Banjo because she can spot a grumpy dog from miles off and tends to just stay away from them. But it happened all the time with Luna.

  2. #62
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    While researching i came across this link on dog parks, and I remember someone here (maybe Mac)a long while ago, suggested they would never let there dog socilaize in a dog park or with strange dogs. At the time I thought that was a strange opinion..........i get it now, and think I may just share that opinion.
    I think any general everyday dog owner with a friendly dog feels the same way. I know i definitely did. I didn't even think of the con's of putting my dog in such a crazy and unpredictable environment. I think when you have a friendly dog, you think everybody else's must be too.

    Luckily i haven't had any really bad experiences with either of my dogs in such a place, though i have seen some pretty awful stuff happen - mostly to do with size difference more than any real aggressiveness. For instance husky & german shepherd pups, trying to play with little daschunds & chihuahua's - i mean it's a recipe for disaster. I guess i truly didn't open my eye's to how awful some of those places are until i got a dog who doesn't mix well with others and because i watch him so intently, i notice things about other dogs that i never use to see.

    I'm very lucky i've been able to find a spot i can take BOTH dogs to. The people are lovely and i like how we are all able to interact with each others dogs - everybody likes to have a go kicking Rex's ball around for him, they don't get tense if he get's snappy at their dogs for annoying him, they call their dogs back and tell them to leave him alone which is cool. Dogs all get along together great - odd thing is though when a strange dog they haven't seen before enters the pen they all get a little funny (stiffened body language, intent gazing at the other dog, growling when they come in their 'personal space' when most times they wouldn't care?). Do you think that dog's realize when there is a 'outsider' even when they don't see each other everyday, or belong to the same household? Is there such a thing as a dog clique among dogs who don't live together?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuri_89 View Post
    Do you think that dog's realize when there is a 'outsider' even when they don't see each other everyday, or belong to the same household? Is there such a thing as a dog clique among dogs who don't live together?
    I think they definitely do! I noticed that most with my old dog Luna who made a point of "testing" every dog she met. A friend who often minded her used to take his dogs to a local oval where the same people used to meet up with their dogs every day. We occasionally went too or he would take my dog when she was staying with him. Even if Luna had not seen those dogs in months, she would not try to do her usual intimidating. She ignored most of them because she just didn't like other dogs much, but she definitely recognised and tolerated them as if she knew they were somehow connected to her.

    I think the owners interacting actually did have some effect on this too. She also knew the neighbourhood dogs and tended to eventually leave them alone, but didn't seem to react to them in the same way as to the dogs whose owners I chatted to. Not sure if I imagined that?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuri_89 View Post
    I think any general everyday dog owner with a friendly dog feels the same way. I know i definitely did. I didn't even think of the con's of putting my dog in such a crazy and unpredictable environment. I think when you have a friendly dog, you think everybody else's must be too.

    Luckily i haven't had any really bad experiences with either of my dogs in such a place, though i have seen some pretty awful stuff happen - mostly to do with size difference more than any real aggressiveness. For instance husky & german shepherd pups, trying to play with little daschunds & chihuahua's - i mean it's a recipe for disaster. I guess i truly didn't open my eye's to how awful some of those places are until i got a dog who doesn't mix well with others and because i watch him so intently, i notice things about other dogs that i never use to see.

    I'm very lucky i've been able to find a spot i can take BOTH dogs to. The people are lovely and i like how we are all able to interact with each others dogs - everybody likes to have a go kicking Rex's ball around for him, they don't get tense if he get's snappy at their dogs for annoying him, they call their dogs back and tell them to leave him alone which is cool. Dogs all get along together great - odd thing is though when a strange dog they haven't seen before enters the pen they all get a little funny (stiffened body language, intent gazing at the other dog, growling when they come in their 'personal space' when most times they wouldn't care?). Do you think that dog's realize when there is a 'outsider' even when they don't see each other everyday, or belong to the same household? Is there such a thing as a dog clique among dogs who don't live together?
    I think its great rex has his little niche where he feels comfortable.

    The second link I posted suggests that often when the same dogs meet in the same place often enough, they get possessive of there area much as they would if was there backyard i guess. So they then begin to see a new dog as a "outsider" coming to there "backyard", which would explain their behaviour.....

    One of my dogs has always been quite timid, especially around other dogs and people. My thought was that if i just kept allowing her to meet new people and dogs, eventually she would be more social and relaxed, well she 3 yrs old and nothing has changed so obviousley that is not the right tactic.
    At dog parks sometimes i have noticed when people or dogs come up tp her she is scared and has that look like "dont come near me, im scared and dont know what to do"(she is 5kg's), and i thought i was helping her get over it in this way....>Epic fail apparantly<.

    This site suggests nervous, timid, shy or defensive dogs will soon learn aggression is the only way to move dogs away when they feel threatened. I should move her away from the dog, pick her up (unemotionally) or leave the park. The same applies for humans (kids) who wanna pat her when shes feeling nervous or overwhelmed.

    The articles i read tend to suggest that dog parks are usually more detrimental to a dog than beneficial, which i guess makes sense when you read what the DOGS think of it and also the high incidences of dogs being injured and hurt.

    So yes...reading the posts here, and those articles, im not sure it is worth it...live and learn i guess!
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    I think I used to have a low tolerance for people who wouldn't let their dogs socialise and I also had a "the dogs will sort it out themselves" attitude. But then I did have a dog who often got into scuffles - usually instigated by her - and never actually bit or got bitten herself, so I had a pretty high tolerance for that kind of aggressive display. But I had no real understanding of what real DA was.

    But talking to people who have/had DA dogs has changed my outlook quite a bit. None of those people intended to make their dogs that way, in some cases it was caused through inexperience (which I can relate to), in other because of events that they had no control over. But they still want the same for their dogs as any other owner who loves their dogs.

    I have no sympathy for people with DA dogs who don't do everything possible to prevent their dog attacking other dogs. But I have lots of sympathy for those who do and are subjected to people who do not respect their right to take their dog out and keep them away from other dogs. Because it is already so much harder for them to meet their dogs' needs.

    I also would never get annoyed for a dog growling or snapping at my dog to tell them to back off. Rarely happens to Banjo because she can spot a grumpy dog from miles off and tends to just stay away from them. But it happened all the time with Luna.
    Of course they love and want the best for their DA dogs but do you agree if they have "attacked" a dog before (not a growl or snap), the reponsible ownership would suggest they wear a muzzle to protect other dogs at the park?
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  6. #66
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    I think dogs are a bit like people in that regard. Some are social butterflies, some are shy and self-conscious, some are just grumpy or bullies, some want to be hermits, some just take ages to warm up to another dog and like to take things very slowly... I don't know how much of that is genes, or those early litter experiences or later influences.

    But even though Banjo is very friendly, I am like Newfsie. I prefer open spaces to take my dog to. We tend to walk and meet other dogs in passing. It's usually a less intense kind of interaction, I find. It's also kind of easier to read the other owner's body language when you are out walking like that. Do they keep walking straight towards you, do they veer off the path, do they put their dog on leash or call them over or try to encourage them to go ahead... And you have time to study the other dog's body language too. Do they start walking very close to their owners and look up at them, do they race ahead, drop down in stalk position. By the time we get close to the owner and dog/s I have already gathered a whole heap of information that prepares me for the meeting. And I might just give Banjo a cue to tell her to leave the other dog alone or make sure she approaches them gently or I might give her permission to do her stalk and charge routine if the other dog looks keen.

    The only exception is the swimming spot if it's hot. There's only one in our immediate area so there's often a whole group of dogs on hot afternoons and the owners stands around. But then the dogs are swimming...

  7. #67
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    I don't think a dog should ever be punished for giving a warning growl. I would be looking to protect my dog from the approaching rude dog, so she didn't have to growl at it. Warning growls are important and do not cause any injury, and let you know there is a problem taht requires immediate action. You need warning growls. Other dogs need to be warned - so they have the opportunity to back off.

    It is illegal for a dog to harrass another dog or animal in my state. Ie rude dogs are not just rude, they're behaving in a manner that is unlawful. So if one dog is on lead, and a rude dog approaches it and gets bitten as a result - that's the rude dog's owner's fault. ie the onlead dog's owner is doing all the right things and the rude dog is doing the wrong things. I do not let Frosty greet onlead dogs we don't know - without the owner's permission. If you cannot stop your rude dog from trying to greet and jump all over every dog it sees - do not let your rude dog off lead.

    However as some as the others have said - when it comes to SWF being torn apart by on lead big dog - the big dog always gets the blame, no matter how rude or unlawful the SWF was. Hence it would be better for big dog on lead's owner to kick the SWF away than let his dog dispactch it. In my experience - most SWF that go running up to big dogs on lead - are not being rude or friendly - they're being aggressive - so the big dog has a right to defend itself and its owner. SWF owner should not let it happen.

    I have trained several SWF who like to harrass big dogs on lead to do conditioned recalls to me - because their owners won't do it and have no recall. Has saved SWF several times. Oh the joy of treats...

    In other news today - Frosty got jumped all over and thoroughy chewed by a malamute puppy today. Puppies have special licence... Frosty play growled at it, did the bump with it, tipped it over many times, but it always wanted more... I think they had fun, and when Frosty had enough, she was boring. All sniff and no play and no running and puppy went off to look for its next victim...


    These two articles explain rude dogs quite well.

    http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/42/97/

    http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/referen...-behavior.html
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 06-22-2012 at 10:33 PM.

  8. #68
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    Taken from Leerburg | Dog Parks: Why They Are A Bad Idea from Cav's earlier post

    If I were to walk a dog in the city, I would not do it without a can of pepper gas to use on any dog that even looks cross-eyed at my puppy.
    A bit extreme no?

  9. #69
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    Molly is a bit 'full on' when she is allowed to meet other dogs off the leash, I don't think she was socialised as a youngster so now she doesn't really know how to act around other dogs. When Meika has had enough of playing, or is trying to sleep and Molly gets in her face, Meika will give off a huge big growl and 'gremlin' noise to let her know that enough is enough. I love Meika doing this and encourage it to an extent (just say 'good girl) because it is teaching Molly when to back off around other dogs and I feel that it's letting Meika know that growling is all she has to do, and there is no need to bite or take it a step past growling and other warning noises.

  10. #70
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    As many have already mentioned here, the owners being friendly towards each other is a cue that
    the dogs seem to pick up on.
    And looking back, the same dogs "mark the park" every day, so the scent
    of all the regulars is already there - before the first tree wee of a new day even occurs.
    There were a number of small fluffies + a Rottie, ACD, GSD, Standard poodle, etc there in our day but
    everyone was friends because the HUMANS were friends.

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